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#12638 - 09/23/05 03:16 AM One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Kate Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 334
Insight Into Eye Evolution Deals Blow To Intelligent Design

The human eye is one of nature's most complex works, which Intelligent Design advocates often cite as proof of an overarching creator. But new research has uncovered the missing evolutionary link between simple invertebrate eyes and our own sophisticated vision system...

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20050822230316data_trunc_sys.shtml

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#12639 - 09/23/05 03:23 AM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Anonymous
Unregistered


Its a gossip that there is anything called Intelligent Design based on superficial criteria of finding the missing links in evolution.
A piece of Art work has beauty and astonishment in it depending upon who is looking at it.
An idiot ass or a master Peace himself.

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#12640 - 09/23/05 04:38 AM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
If intelligent design was true ... how could you possibly explain Pat Robertson?

Moronic design?
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#12641 - 09/23/05 05:38 AM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank god you are not Pat Robertson.
There was a good chance of you becoming like him.
Wasnt that intelligent with respect you.

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#12642 - 09/23/05 05:15 PM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Yet Another Crank Offline
Member

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 65
Loc: My secret island lair
The human eye is a great argument AGAINST intelligent design.

I mean, come on. If a camera manufacturer designed a camera with all the wires in between the lens and the film, they certainly wouldn't be considered very intelligent. The human eye is a hodgepodge.
_________________________
Bwa ha ha haaaa!!

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#12643 - 09/23/05 08:58 PM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
One should not forget that our eyes are a physical part of, and an extension of, our brain.
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#12644 - 09/24/05 01:27 AM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
jjw Offline
Superstar

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 636
Loc: USA
Hi Kate: You are #1.

Do you really think there is ANY discovery that will prove creation did not twist into it?.

JW

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#12645 - 09/24/05 04:55 AM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Anonymous
Unregistered


When you consider the design make sure that you take care of the future scenarios....
Life has goal to keep its form alive as long as possible and it decides how rapid should be the progress... what you see the wrong today will not be wrong tomorrow.
So dont criticize now wait for tomorrow.

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#12646 - 09/24/05 07:12 PM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Garry Denke Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 119
Loc: Plano, Texas, USA
"This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being. And if the fixed stars are the centres of other like systems, these, being formed by the like wise counsel, must be all subject to the dominion of One; especially since the light of the fixed stars is of the same nature with the light of the sun, and from every system light passes into all the other systems: and lest the systems of the fixed stars should, by their gravity, fall on each other mutually, He hath placed those systems at immense distances one from another."

~Sir Isaac Newton
The Father of Physics
_________________________
I like rocks.

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#12647 - 09/24/05 08:44 PM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Anonymous
Unregistered


But stars do "fall on each other mutually", we've seen examples of matter streaming from one star to another, and from a star to a black hole. Newton did not have all the facts in his posession; What was true in the 19th century has been reversed in the 20th and 21st. Science moves onward; Newton is dead and cannot defend himself. Stop quoting dead men and look at current knowledge.

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#12648 - 09/24/05 11:24 PM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Garry Denke Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 119
Loc: Plano, Texas, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Amaranth Rose:
What was true in the 19th century has been reversed in the 20th and 21st. Science moves onward; Newton is dead and cannot defend himself. Stop quoting dead men and look at current knowledge.
"Stop telling God what to do!" When Niels Bohr said these words to Albert Einstein it was probably in exasperation with Einstein's frequent repetition of the phrase, "God does not play dice with the universe". The latter is perhaps the most famous of Einstein's many references to religion, although "The Lord God is subtle, but malicious he is not", comes a close second.

There are many others too, but in honoring Amaranth Rose's request for censorship of 20th century truth, I will discontinue quoting the great scientists' thoughts upon which SAGG members' theories rest. Scientific materialists, who regard all forms of religious belief as superstition, are often puzzled, even embarrassed, by Albert Einstein's frequent remarks about God.

For them, Einstein's passing has not been long enough ago.

"Eye for eye"
~God
_________________________
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#12649 - 09/24/05 11:59 PM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
People can have scientific opinions and they can have religious opinions. Intelligent Design is a legitimate philosophy. It is not a legitimate science.

(It's only a legitimate philosophy to the extent that its promulgators are not making stupid and usually false statements about evolution or making up pretend statistics. Example: Jonathon Well's "icons of evolution" is blathering nonsense no matter how it's cut up.)

The only people who reject evolution are the ones whose "understanding" of it amounts to barbershop gossip.

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#12650 - 10/10/05 06:58 PM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thought the following might be of interest smile

http://www.mr-shouty-trousers.com/Less-Intelligent-Design

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#12651 - 10/10/05 08:10 PM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Here we go again.

I have rightly been asked to keep my religious views off this site, but I reserve the right to respond when religion is rubbished.

But my question is this:

Why can't YOU keep religion off this site?

And in response - I think it is quite acceptable to believe in a creator who set up the conditions for evolution to produce an eye that was good enough - mine is good enough to see that with respect to what can be posted on this site there are some double standards.

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#12652 - 10/10/05 08:31 PM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
" Scientific materialists, who regard all forms of religious belief as superstition, are often puzzled, even embarrassed, by Albert Einstein's frequent remarks about God."

Puzzled, yes. Embarrassed, no. Albert Einstein, while he denied being an atheist, also vigorously denied believing in a personal god. This and the fact that when he described the only sense in which he considered himself religious are confusing because most atheists have a hard time parsing "a belief in god that is not a personal god." Why call the sum total of natural law "God?"

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#12653 - 10/10/05 09:27 PM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Fallible Fiend,

A god who is not a personal god.

This is the belief of deists - who say that god created the universe and then smooched off to create or do something else. In effect they believe that god created it like a clock you wind up and let it go.

There is of course also Pantheism. The belief that God is everywhere and everything - and this is beyond saying that he is just the sum of natural law.

Neither of these are ideas of personal gods.

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#12654 - 10/10/05 10:17 PM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Prove that any god, of any description, exists.

Take your time.

Because when you get down I'm going to use your proof to establish the fact that the entire universe was created by an invisible purple rhinoceros.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#12655 - 10/10/05 11:30 PM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
DA Morgan wrote-

Prove that any god, of any description, exists.

REP: Of course I cannot. But I know that after a childhood of very intense child abuse at the hands of a schizophrenic step-father, including being bolted in a room for five years and unable to talk with anyone, with a bucket to go to the toilet in, I was a complete and utter mess.

At fourteen, my Mother?s then boyfriends, (she knew how to pick ?em), beat her to the point of death with a hammer and made me sit and weep for half an hour while the blood and life seeped from her. She was dead on arrival at hospital but only just as she was resuscitated and spent weeks in intensive care.

I determined to kill myself because my world and image of myself was completely fragmented and I was in more pain than many people can even imagine. So I slashed my wrist at the age of 15 and sat in a forest to die. After everything going cold and fading away and passing out, I awoke to find that somehow I had walked into school - a good distance, and they took me to hospital - I don't know if it was God that saved me and won't press the point.

But I still had no ability to live my life properly after having been socially cut off from others during my formative years, and assumed that I had done something to deserve my treatment - in fact I thought I was a piece of scum and walked around constantly saying to myself - 'you are scum - you are scum', (I don't know why I did this, I just did - but it seems so alien to me now).

So I was still determined to die.

Until I went on a church camp to Wales where I heard about God and mocked the message. Do you think I had any time for a god who had abandoned me to my fate?

But on the second night I almost zombie like, and without knowing what I was doing, asked to see a Christian leader and committed my life to God. (Please don't insult me by accusing me of being brain-washed into doing this - that would require a degree of mind control that camsouth would be comfortable with - see Satellites are hacked thread).

I believe that God took me before I destroyed myself. Why - I do not know? But my life quickly changed completely out of shape - for the first time since I was a young child I experienced happiness. For the first time I experienced wonder at the world. For the first time I began to slowly feel positive about myself and that I might have a future. In fact, as I was healed and transformed into a balanced individual who was able to engage with other people again, I began to stop thinking I was a worthless piece of crap that was only good for beating senseless and performing torture techniques on.

No one else helped me ? no one. It was only through letting myself stay in the hands of God that I am still alive. Yes ? it is sometimes senseless ? why me? Why not others? But I am not alone in this experience. It isn?t just me. It is anyone who can put their doubt and objections aside for just one moment ? just long enough to allow a creator to show himself to be real and trust-worthy.

You asked whether I can prove the existence of God. Well pretty much to my own satisfaction ? not solidly, concretely, to the point where I can never doubt, but enough for me to be comfortable with it.

And you talk about suffering and evil ? I suffered and I believe that I had evil perpetrated on me ? but I have experienced a God who restores us if we let him. And a God who has an eternity to restore those who die in their suffering if they choose it.

But a God who does not force you one way or another.

You have every right to mock me because you think I am stupid and cannot debate properly, but luckily for me, God accepts the fools as well as the wise.

And he will come in his own terms and not ours - but he will definitely not be held back by your cutting logic.

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#12656 - 10/10/05 11:38 PM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Ooops - My Mother's then boyfriend singular.

Blacknad

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#12657 - 10/11/05 03:03 AM Re: One In The Eye For Intelligent Design
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
Einstein said he believed in the god of Spinoza, a pantheistic belief that says essentially that everything (in the universe) is god. There was apparrently some feeling of mystic serenity in feeling that we are part of nature.

I think many - possibly most - atheists feel this same thing, but they don't refer to it as god. Einstein may have believed in god, but the way in which he expressed his belief would include a great many atheists.
I don't know of many who would feel embarrassed by him. Confused, yes. Embarrassed - preposterous.

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