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#12597 - 08/26/05 05:50 AM Re: Creationist advertisements??
Anonymous
Unregistered


"belief in the absence of empirical evidence or logic".
REP: The apparent absence of empirical evidence is due to the nature of the subject itself.
For example
Homeopathy goes agianst the understood logical framework of Sceince.But the medicine works.
Millions believe in it.
And James Randy proved it that it doenst work!!
Some say that Placibo effect is the reason behind it... this belief is very powerful.Powerful enough to correct the system without external assitance.Suddenly the cells realize that they can fight the disease.
Isnt it strange that just because I believe that it will work... it works .
Such is the power.Science can deny that but
millions belive in it.
Small babies who do not understand what the medicine is, but get benefitted out it.How is that possible?
Hoemopathy can at best can be related to faith.
The religion works on same principles of faith..
And who knows whether Science it getting shaped based on our unconscious belief or the unconcious faith is getting shaped based upon the Science.There is no way we can prove it as the question itself is beyond the framework of our chosen subject.

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#12598 - 10/19/05 01:53 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
All people who believe in God are stupid! Most of the ones I know admit that they are not 100% sure that a God or spiritual world even exists! Yet, they continue to waste their life praying, sacrificing potential sources of fun and risking their lives unnecessarily, with the hope, THE HOPE that they are granted access to a 'paradise' when they die. My message to any believers out there; this world is undeniably real, and there is no proof of a spiritual one. Accept what you have and be thankful for it!

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#12599 - 10/20/05 07:03 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Not stupid ... brain washed.

There are a lot of very smart people who, from the time they were born, were taught certain things that just are not true.

It is very hard for them to break free of those prejudices.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#12600 - 10/24/05 02:39 AM Re: Creationist advertisements??
Jack J. Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally posted by Rob:
All people who believe in God are stupid!
Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
Not stupid ... brain washed.

It is very hard for them to break free of those prejudices.
First: Does your science define the most rude argument as winning? That sounds a lot like fundamentalist dogma.

Second, empirical data suggests that religion gives a selective advantage, as all successful communities (nations) have a religion. To date, there are no successful atheist countries (though there are those in China trying to substitute Communism for the prevailing Buddhism

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#12601 - 11/21/05 03:45 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
"...all successful communities (nations) have a religion."

Therefore proving that brainwashing works.

"there are no successful atheist countries"

Wait and see. My progress to complete atheism was a slow one. I killed off and debunked parts of my belief one at a time. All in all it took me around two years to go from believing in God 100% to 99%. I held on to this 1% for a further few months just in case this world is all some charade, a primitive creation by a 'God' for his other primitive creations to live in. Then one day I thought; if the rules of science in 'God's' realm were more advanced, how did 'he' get knowledge of them to be able to mimic them? The question brought about another question; if the realm of 'God' has rules, which it undoubtedly does, else it wouldn't be able to exist, that means that 'God' can be EXPLAINED by science. Science to me is the study of rules that produce everything; therefore, there is nothing that cannot be explained by these rules. Hence my disbelief in the unexplained. The word should really be changed to unexplained-yet.
Then there was the whole notion of who created 'God'? Finally, I thought; if there is a God, this guy must be an idiot. He creates life, and a way to explain it, and then he tells the people that the explanations are wrong and that they should believe a story, a STORY. It is these fools that he takes into his kingdom. What?s he trying to create, a kingdom of morons?
Actually, it really wasn?t any of these things that converted me to true atheism, it was just one thing, one thing that no theist can explain. One thing that anyone sensible wouldn?t even attempt to explain, it?s a question; who created God. The answer, allegedly given by the bible, which I have no intent on reading, unless to humour myself, is that he was always there. I?ve said the following time and time again and I hate to repeat myself, but this is the final time; IF ?GOD? WAS ?ALWAYS THERE? THEN WHY WASN?T EVERYTHING ALWAYS THERE?!

Back to my point at the very beginning, wait and see, the more answers we get from science, the less valued the made- up stories will get.

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#12602 - 11/21/05 03:53 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
Reading over my post, I realise that it was directed only at one religion. Well, it goes for all religions. May they all burn in a volcano.

Furthermore, here's a question for you, Philege the foolish; Now, before I start, don't gloat that I am accepting 'God' as factual, I'm just speaking your language. Anyway, here comes the question; Have you ever thought that maybe God's real aim is to collect the ones that DON'T believe in him as they are obviously much smarter since they don't believe in something without proof?

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#12603 - 11/21/05 08:30 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Rob,

Why are you so full of vitriol for believers?

Rob - He creates life, and a way to explain it, and then he tells the people that the explanations are wrong and that they should believe a story, a STORY.

REP: Rob, do you have the time to expand upon this? I'm particularly interested in where you think God has told you that your explanations are wrong.

I have no problem believing that, in terms of Origins, everything from the moment of the Big Bang to the present is explainable by science.

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#12604 - 11/21/05 10:05 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
Chris Maxwell Offline
Member

Registered: 10/10/05
Posts: 26
Loc: UK
ok you people think God dont Exist well i tell you something " First Evolution , You are here: Science >> Darwin's Theory Of Evolution

Darwin's Theory of Evolution - The Premise
Darwin's Theory of Evolution is the widely held notion that all life is related and has descended from a common ancestor: the birds and the bananas, the fishes and the flowers -- all related. Darwin's general theory presumes the development of life from non-life and stresses a purely naturalistic (undirected) "descent with modification". That is, complex creatures evolve from more simplistic ancestors naturally over time. In a nutshell, as random genetic mutations occur within an organism's genetic code, the beneficial mutations are preserved because they aid survival -- a process known as "natural selection." These beneficial mutations are passed on to the next generation. Over time, beneficial mutations accumulate and the result is an entirely different organism (not just a variation of the original, but an entirely different creature).

Darwin's Theory of Evolution - Natural Selection
While Darwin's Theory of Evolution is a relatively young archetype, the evolutionary worldview itself is as old as antiquity. Ancient Greek philosophers such as Anaximander postulated the development of life from non-life and the evolutionary descent of man from animal. Charles Darwin simply brought something new to the old philosophy -- a plausible mechanism called "natural selection." Natural selection acts to preserve and accumulate minor advantageous genetic mutations. Suppose a member of a species developed a functional advantage (it grew wings and learned to fly). Its offspring would inherit that advantage and pass it on to their offspring. The inferior (disadvantaged) members of the same species would gradually die out, leaving only the superior (advantaged) members of the species. Natural selection is the preservation of a functional advantage that enables a species to compete better in the wild. Natural selection is the naturalistic equivalent to domestic breeding. Over the centuries, human breeders have produced dramatic changes in domestic animal populations by selecting individuals to breed. Breeders eliminate undesirable traits gradually over time. Similarly, natural selection eliminates inferior species gradually over time.

Darwin's Theory of Evolution - Slowly But Surely...
Darwin's Theory of Evolution is a slow gradual process. Darwin wrote, "?Natural selection acts only by taking advantage of slight successive variations; she can never take a great and sudden leap, but must advance by short and sure, though slow steps." [1] Thus, Darwin conceded that, "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down." [2] Such a complex organ would be known as an "irreducibly complex system". An irreducibly complex system is one composed of multiple parts, all of which are necessary for the system to function. If even one part is missing, the entire system will fail to function. Every individual part is integral. [3] Thus, such a system could not have evolved slowly, piece by piece. The common mousetrap is an everyday non-biological example of irreducible complexity. It is composed of five basic parts: a catch (to hold the bait), a powerful spring, a thin rod called "the hammer," a holding bar to secure the hammer in place, and a platform to mount the trap. If any one of these parts is missing, the mechanism will not work. Each individual part is integral. The mousetrap is irreducibly complex. [4]

Darwin's Theory of Evolution - A Theory In Crisis
Darwin's Theory of Evolution is a theory in crisis in light of the tremendous advances we've made in molecular biology, biochemistry and genetics over the past fifty years. We now know that there are in fact tens of thousands of irreducibly complex systems on the cellular level. Specified complexity pervades the microscopic biological world. Molecular biologist Michael Denton wrote, "Although the tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small, weighing less than 10-12 grams, each is in effect a veritable micro-miniaturized factory containing thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery, made up altogether of one hundred thousand million atoms, far more complicated than any machinery built by man and absolutely without parallel in the non-living world." [5]

And we don't need a microscope to observe irreducible complexity. The eye, the ear and the heart are all examples of irreducible complexity, though they were not recognized as such in Darwin's day. Nevertheless, Darwin confessed, "To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree." [6]
its %80 Right and %20

"the Right Part is that we did did come from Single organisms and we did need Natural Selection to become what we are today" , the Wrong part is that is Darwin did'nt know that for life to Exist you need a Jump start from something from the Unkwown (God) yes God is not the Man you think he is ,Genesis is only Symbolic God could not tell inferior beings about they Origins " ,

Religion offer very simple answers - science offers new possibilities Did we indeed rise out of that primeval goo by coincidence or are we result divine intervention?.Remember Science is only Possiablity , its only hard work of inferior
being who just Discovers something , maybe Evolution was Discover by a Bloody Cave man lol who knows all i'm saying is i would just go with the Flow (God's Journal AKA bible)

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#12605 - 11/21/05 10:14 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
Chris Maxwell Offline
Member

Registered: 10/10/05
Posts: 26
Loc: UK
And Rob God is not an Idiot you are an Confessed
inferior Being and God did Explain the Origins of life you foolish " (read the Bible)

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#12606 - 01/06/06 07:12 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
One quick question for you; have you had ANY sort of education in science? In fact -knock off the "in science".

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#12607 - 01/09/06 07:22 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
soilguy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 414
Loc: North Carolina
"Darwin's general theory presumes the development of life from non-life and..."

It does nothing of the sort.

"Natural selection is the naturalistic equivalent to domestic breeding. Over the centuries, human breeders have produced dramatic changes in domestic animal populations by selecting individuals to breed. Breeders eliminate undesirable traits gradually over time. Similarly, natural selection eliminates inferior species gradually over time."

There are some parallels with animal husbandry, but I wouldn't call natural selection the equivalent of breeding domestic animals. Also, what do you mean by "inferior species"?

"Darwin's Theory of Evolution is a theory in crisis in light of the tremendous advances we've made in molecular biology, biochemistry and genetics over the past fifty years. We now know that there are in fact tens of thousands of irreducibly complex systems on the cellular level."

Then it should be easy for you to name a few of these tens of thousands.

"Although the tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small, weighing less than 10-12 grams..."

A bacterium weighing less than 10 grams?!? Lies I tell you!

"And we don't need a microscope to observe irreducible complexity. The eye, the ear and the heart are all examples of irreducible complexity, though they were not recognized as such in Darwin's day."

Is that right? Can you explain how the eye, ear and heart are irreducibly complex?

"Religion offer very simple answers..."

You know something? I think we've found common ground here.
_________________________
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis

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#12608 - 01/10/06 05:06 AM Re: Creationist advertisements??
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Great answers soilguy ... great answers. And in response to the last part of your posting:

***********************************************
"Religion offer very simple answers..."

You know something? I think we've found common ground here.
***********************************************

I bring you these wonderful quotations:

Things should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler
~ Albert Einstein

For every problem, there is one solution which is simple, neat and wrong. For every human problem, there is a neat, simple solution; and it is always wrong.
~H.L. Mencken

Or to quote Shell Oil Company:
"The stone age didn't end because the world ran out of stones."

These people seem bound and determined to take us back there one ignorant step at a time.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#12609 - 01/10/06 01:38 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
START THE REVOLUTION!!!

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#12610 - 01/10/06 05:33 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
Anonymous
Unregistered


Rob,
What exactly do you find revolting?

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#12611 - 01/10/06 05:56 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
I agree Rob. The problem is that we are outnumbered. Always have been ... likely always will be.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#12612 - 01/11/06 03:18 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
soilguy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 414
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
I agree Rob. The problem is that we are outnumbered. Always have been ... likely always will be.
But that won't stop us! We're scientists, dammit!
_________________________
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis

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#12613 - 01/11/06 09:42 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
Yeah! We have antimatter on our side! What do they have? -No fear of death. That just makes them easier to kill. HA HAA!

(No offence, Blacknad)

"What exactly do you find revolting?"
If you don't know me by now, you will never never never know me.

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#12614 - 01/12/06 05:25 AM Re: Creationist advertisements??
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Well there is absolutely no one on the serious science side in the last 24 hours except me and one person who claims to have actually published in a peer reviewed journal but doesn't know how to write an actual citation ... ho hum ... so I'm back here again with the rest of the lab rats.

No fear of death Rob? Come off it. They are the ones who are truly terrified. That is why they invent their invisible purple rhino clones. It creates a little closet in their minds where they can shut all of their fears away and not think about them ... well until one day the grim reaper stares them straight in the face. Then they are the first one's making deals with god, the devil, the tooth fairy, anyone that will listen to them. They are chimeras without substance just like all who wave the flag or other emblems in public.

From my experience in life those that truly believe in something have one thing in common. They don't feel compelled to advertise it in public.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#12615 - 01/12/06 12:43 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
I "truly" believe in the laws of physics -opposed to anything and everything else, and practically all I've done on this origins board is "advertise" that belief.

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#12616 - 01/12/06 01:08 PM Re: Creationist advertisements??
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
(No offence, Blacknad)

Rob, no offense taken - you're right.

The phrase 'turn the other cheek' is perhaps a little redundant when it comes to antimatter.

Blacknad.

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