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#12562 - 04/02/06 01:33 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
jjw Offline
Superstar

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 636
Loc: USA
The question was: Would an atheist world be a better one?

I read about this entire tirade that gets involved with definitions of sorts.

The issue of whether probability requires there are more that believe in god than not is easily answered by what we see. There is no doubt whatever that as of now the world population overwhelmingly favors a belief in some kind of god so, probability or none, facts carry the day.

The real issue relates to the original question and I have an observation of substance.

The proof is found by reading all the posts of the atheists, and comparing those posts to those that offer something in favor of religion. There is no comparison. I am sorry to report that the atheists lack any demonstration of reasonable tolerance; they tend to be argumentative and combative. They are usually repetitive and do not show an effort to discuss the issue objectively.

This is my ?objective? observation. I think that an atheist world would be absolutely godless.
jjw

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#12563 - 04/02/06 01:25 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Count Iblis II Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 375
Quote:


Here's what your reference states:
"Recent developments in cosmology indicate that every history having a nonzero probability is realized in the infinitely many distict regions of spacetime."

So a planet inhabited by beings that believe in god has a non-zero probability of existing. You are standing on it. That says (1) nothing about more than one existing and (2) has absolutely nothing whatsovever to do with Bayesian Probability.
Hahahahahaaahahahahaaaaa! What does ''probability'' here mean? If it isn't in the Bayesian sense (and I mean Bayesian in its official meaning, not the twisted parapsychological nonsensical definition by DA Morgan), then it is the frequentists definition. But then what does the quoted paragraph say? It is then a tautology!


Quote:
That says (1) nothing about more than one existing
Yes it does say that, because it is claimed that all histories that are not forbidden by the laws of physics are realized. An atheistic world were humans live does not violate any of the laws of physics. If you believe it does, then point out what laws of physics would have to be violated.


Quote:
and (2) has absolutely nothing whatsovever to do with Bayesian Probability.
Like I said, of course it has.

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#12564 - 04/03/06 12:49 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
jjw04 wrote:
"The question was: Would an atheist world be a better one?"

And the answer simply is that we don't know because we do not know of any other inhabited planet other than our own.

jjw continued:
"This is my ?objective? observation. I think that an atheist world would be absolutely godless."

I agree.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#12565 - 06/07/06 01:11 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Peter Bmn Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 35
Loc: Canberra
I don't see that there is any basic difference between Atheist and Theist societies, as they are all religious. What's more important is the style of belief or disbelief (and the values which go with the belief system).

Just by reading your contributions it is easy to see that some people are more Fundamentalist in style than others, and that being an Atheist does not protect you from being a hard core Fundamentalist or stop you from trying to convert others to your beliefs.

Obviously living society which matches your beliefs would be much more comfortable, but if you do live in a society with contrary beliefs then it would be much easier if it was low on fundamentalism.
Despite this, as TheFallibleFiend says, there are other things which are much more important than belief or disbelief in a deity. If you were an Atheist in an Atheist society, a conflict in values between you and your society could be much more significant than being an Atheist in a Theist society if your values generally matched those of your society. .e.g Communists living in Nazi Germany (I am not sure whether the Nazism was officially Atheist, but they come across that way, especially with their semi deification of the Arian race).

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#12566 - 06/07/06 05:13 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
"godless", "god fearing" whats the difference. if it were not god, some other form of control would be created.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#12567 - 06/08/06 04:17 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Peter wrote:
"Just by reading your contributions it is easy to see that some people are more Fundamentalist in style than others, and that being an Atheist does not protect you from being a hard core Fundamentalist or stop you from trying to convert others to your beliefs."

Au contraire. I don't give a rip what you or anyone else believes. What I do care about is brain washing children and committing immoral and unethical acts while hypocritically justifying them by claiming god supports the act.

In the privacy of your own house you can be as smart or as stupid as you wish. Smoke tobacco or crack. Drink scotch or strychnine. Not my problem.
Just don't do unto others.

In short I'd be happy to shut up about what's wrong with Christian faith-based nonsense if Christians would do us an equal courtesy and stop trying to market the product.
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DA Morgan

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#12568 - 06/08/06 09:24 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
Peter wrote:Au contraire. I don't give a rip what you or anyone else believes. What I do care about is brain washing children and committing immoral and unethical acts while hypocritically justifying them by claiming god supports the act.
what measure do you determine that something is immoral. simple religion of one type or another. morals are the standards that society teaches us to measure everything by. we use our own sense of ethics to decide to follow those codes or not. in some socieites things you've mentioned were considered normal moral behavior. in those, your arguements would be considered immoral. you see, youre as big a victum of 'brainwashing' as everyone else. some of the biggest monsters of our times had the moral code to understand that socieity did not agree with it. but their sense of ethics make them feel it was unimportant enough to follow that code.

Quote:
In the privacy of your own house you can be as smart or as stupid as you wish. Smoke tobacco or crack. Drink scotch or strychnine. Not my problem.
Just don't do unto others.
so you believe if an aithies does it in the confort of his home and does not get all hypocritically about it, its ok?

Quote:
In short I'd be happy to shut up about what's wrong with Christian faith-based nonsense if Christians would do us an equal courtesy and stop trying to market the product.
for the most part i can agree with that. their biggest problem is that they are not happy, unless everyone else is as miserable as they are.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#12569 - 06/08/06 11:24 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
dehammer asks:
"what measure do you determine that something is immoral."

Things are damaged. People, buildings, forests.

dehammer wrote:
"so you believe if an aithies does it in the confort of his home and does not get all hypocritically about it, its ok?"

Does what? Read my first sentence above.
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DA Morgan

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#12570 - 06/09/06 02:30 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
Things are damaged. People, buildings, forests.
so ppl burning forest so they could plant crops were immoral. no. at that time society said it was a good thing.

so destroy old building to make room for new ones is immoral. no. that is not. society decides what is immoral.

Quote:
Does what? Read my first sentence above.
i did. According to your statement, what is wrong is that they church is doing it in the name of religion. the reality is that its not OK for anyone to do things like that. whether its in a person home by a beloved father, or in a church by a priest, or in the forest by a total stranger, its all the same thing. as long as society decides it immoral, it has to apply to all in that society. example: in the christian church, certain things are not allowed. in other religions its part of the ceremony and part of their home and life. if your christian, and you do them, then your acting immoral.

the problem with many Christians is that they cant see what is immoral for them, does not apply to other religions. most of them believe, for example, that America is a christian nation. it has never been a christian nation. most of the founding fathers were not christian. a large percentage of them were deitist. (not sure of that spelling). some were out and out pagan. but the christian revisionist would have you believe that everyone that has ever been part of American history was either christian or an enemy. unfortunately by their standards, its moral to rewrite history. ethical is another question.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#12571 - 06/09/06 03:59 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
dehammer asks:
"so ppl burning forest so they could plant crops were immoral."

Is this a rhetorical question based on forest clearing 100 years ago or is it contemporary and based on the current burning of the Amazon and Indonesia.

If it wasn't for religious hypocrites hell-bent on global overpopulation there would be plenty of food.

Just once I'd like to see a rational explanation of why this planet needs a larger human population than it had 50 years ago. Got one?
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DA Morgan

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#12572 - 06/09/06 05:50 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
Is this a rhetorical question based on forest clearing 100 years ago or is it contemporary and based on the current burning of the Amazon and Indonesia.
no, it was a rhetorical question based on the fact that in mans early farming history, he burned down many forest to make room for food for his expanding family.


Quote:
If it wasn't for religious hypocrites hell-bent on global overpopulation there would be plenty of food.

Just once I'd like to see a rational explanation of why this planet needs a larger human population than it had 50 years ago. Got one?
where did you get the idea that man "planned" the increase in population. if it had been planned, its unlikely that it would have reached this size.

the closest that anyone came to planning it, was the church declaring that it was immoral to use contraceptives of any type. to my way of seeing things that was the most hypocritical thing a hypocritial religion has ever done.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#12573 - 06/10/06 07:06 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
I don't respond to rhetorical questions.

dehammer asks:
"where did you get the idea that man "planned" the increase in population"

Last time I checked most countries financially subsidize it. That, by definition, is planning.

I'll agree many religious rules around sex and reproduction are grossly hypocrical. But their greatest hypocrosy? Not when compared to raping women during a "holy" war. There is no limit to religious hypocrisy.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#12574 - 06/11/06 02:01 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
no, thats more lack of planning than planning. ive yet to see any program anywhere that pays ppl to have children and says, 'this is for the purpose of having more children.' i have seen programs set up for other reasons that have had that effect. that is because of lack of planning, not because of planning.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#12575 - 06/16/06 11:40 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Anonymous
Unregistered


It hardly matters what kind of world you believe in....
What matters is are you happy doing what you are doing?
And from logic based on sociology it is clear that that Ablsolute Aethist world is not likely to happen.
Therefore from sociology point of view it becomes important to learn to tolerate opposite point of view till we dont really understand that somehow this whole Universe loves each one of us...
Without any preconditions.. and if there is any pain then it is due to our thought process which somehow refuses to recognise and realize this simple fact that we are all loved by the allmighty...unconditionally.
Such a faith demands complete surrender with soul..(if you believe in one) or with mind (if you believe in one) or with heart(if you have one)

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#12576 - 06/20/06 03:51 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by dkv:
It hardly matters what kind of world you believe in....
What matters is are you happy doing what you are doing?
And from logic based on sociology it is clear that that Ablsolute Aethist world is not likely to happen.
Therefore from sociology point of view it becomes important to learn to tolerate opposite point of view till we dont really understand that somehow this whole Universe loves each one of us...
Without any preconditions.. and if there is any
pain then it is due to our thought process which somehow refuses to recognise and realize this simple fact that we are all loved by the allmighty...unconditionally.
Such a faith demands complete surrender with soul..(if you believe in one) or with mind (if you believe in one) or with heart(if you have one)
As best I can tell, this thread is not about faith, or souls, or minds or hearts. The heart is an organ which pumps blood, nothing more, in scientific terms.

Please stick to Science and Science related topics. Consider yourself warned.

Amaranth
Moderator

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