Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Who's Online
0 registered (), 254 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Top Posters (30 Days)
Page 5 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
#12502 - 12/08/05 08:52 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
for stupid reasons, no logical proof, just sentimental and rich-in-emotion rubbish, i'm guessing.
No offence.

Top
.
#12503 - 12/09/05 12:02 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Rob,

I really don't know where your strong dislike of anyone who dares to believe in anything not scientifically provable comes from. I would urge you to chill out a little - it's not worth getting so upset about.

As for proof (unfortunately non-empirical - but philosophically speaking, a weak proof, and one that is strengthened when combined with other weak proofs).

I have time and again seen people's lives transformed beyond belief when they have had a real encounter with Christ. And I used to work as a counsellor and know what change is possible through therapy, and also what change is possible through medication or even mind altering recreational drugs. Not one of these vehicles for change can even remotely shadow the complete reversal of utterly broken people, sometimes suicidal people that I have witnessed.

And of course I am one of them.

Now feel free to discount what I say - feel free to underestimate the degree of personal transformation I have seen, belittle me, call me a liar, call me ignorant, call me gullible, call me stupid, illogical, sentimental and emotion-rich - I won't be offended.

But none of that will change the veracity of what I say - not one iota.

Now as a man who has more than a passing interest in science, I am sure you would not expect me to deny what I have witnessed and experienced first hand, because I know enough about psychology to know that what I have seen is unparalleled elsewhere within society.

People who come to Christ find their lives transformed beyond recognition, and for those, like me, that have had a crappy experience of life there is peace and more importantly hope (for this life - not the pie in the sky next life that you would detest).

It would seem, from all that you say, that you would like to deny me this, so that you can have your religion free planet.

Yours pretty much unoffendably,

Blacknad.

Top
#12504 - 12/09/05 12:06 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
"It would seem, from all that you say, that you would like to deny me this, so that you can have your religion free planet."
This statement says to me "ignorance is bliss, leave me alone." Ignorance is only bliss for the educated, as we laugh at the ignorant, that's where the bliss comes from.
I'm fine (not totally) with people believing that there is a higher purpose to their seemingly irrelevant actions throughout life. But when people spend their time and money in churches and pray whilst on hijacked planes instead of doing EVERYTHING in their power to fight for their life, I get annoyed.
Religion tells people not to be selfish, and care for others. Apart from pre-programmed codes of behaviour, the only thing stopping a human from killing their own kind, in self-defence, is pure, raw selfishness. It's funny because here we see idiots applying logical thought to their actions; they weigh out their small odds of survival against their attacker and compare it to an eternity in paradise which would be sabotaged if they were to kill their attacker. So what do they do -pray. It's just sad, very, very sad.

Top
#12505 - 12/09/05 09:48 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Beaker Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 34
Loc: Hatfield - Herts - UK
To continue your analogy of people praying on a hijacked plane, they don't fight the hijacker who is, presumably, armed and quite willing to kill them because they fear for their lives (small picture - they get stabbed/shot they die, not big picture - plane crashes they die). Heroism is a lack of time to consider the facts. They pray in the hope the someone more powerful than themselves will intervene, if an armed SAS lad was on the plane everyone would be asking him to help not praying to God. Religion as a whole, with singular of multiple deities, is the bases of a moral frame work for society, the installed belief in an authority figure who is inescapable and infallible. Fear is what drives all human kind, a sad fact that the many governments of the world are cashing in on at the moment. The fear of death, the fear of failure, the fear of isolation. These are the things which drive us. "Morality is the herd instinct in the individual" Oscar Wilde.
_________________________
If you believe everything you read, better not read.

Top
#12506 - 12/10/05 03:24 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
exactly

Top
#12507 - 12/12/05 03:42 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
But there are other ways to do this and not have people being so stupid. I feel ashamed every time I think about aliens picking up radio the signals of the god channel.

Top
#12508 - 12/12/05 08:25 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Beaker Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 34
Loc: Hatfield - Herts - UK
Intelligent life emerged on this planet (to a greater or lesser extent) so it must have on other planets. Belief in deities has occurred in every culture I have heard of, this has probably happened on other life bearing planets as well. I?ve got no problem with religion, only the exploitation of it and when it leads people to harm other because of it.
_________________________
If you believe everything you read, better not read.

Top
#12509 - 12/13/05 10:27 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Rob said - 'It's funny because here we see idiots applying logical thought to their actions; they weigh out their small odds of survival against their attacker and compare it to an eternity in paradise which would be sabotaged if they were to kill their attacker. So what do they do -pray. It's just sad, very, very sad.'

REP: Here is either a huge misconception or a huge generalization.

Generalization: Are you saying that all religions have an expectation that no follower can take another life nuder any circumstances and still be acceptable to their god? Because?

Misconception: Christianity certainly says no such thing. Christ tells his followers they should do no harm to anyone else. This has no bearing upon whether they remain acceptable to him or not. You have shown this misunderstanding in other posts. People are not acceptable to Christ based upon whether they keep rules or not.

So any believer who was faced with an attacker on a plane would not be struck off if they chose to defend themselves or others with lethal force.

Your repeated statements about religion preventing people from living in the real world are mistaken and show a lack of understanding.

I would not attempt to bring science into disrepute by focusing on crackpot psuedo-scientists or Nazi Vivisectionists or even Hiroshima - but you do not extend the same sensible courtesy to religion.

Regards,

Blacknad

Top
#12510 - 12/13/05 07:15 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
Yes, I think the world COULD be a better place if we were all atheists. Compassionate atheists. Especially, if we were all able to respect the balance of our earth and live in harmony with our environment and fellow creatures.
But, I think the world COULD be a better place if we were all truly compassionate faith filled people, too.

We are a long way from either of those scenerios. Perhaps, we are just an erroneous aternative reality. Maybe, there's a true reality out there that got it right.
_________________________
~Justine~

Top
#12511 - 12/15/05 02:08 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
jjw Offline
Superstar

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 636
Loc: USA
Topic: would an atheist world be a better one?

I think I made a reply earlier but I feel a need to floow up. The answer for me is NO. They have nothing to offer that is better than what we have now, except possibly no donations required. They are currently agressively attacking the most benign and harmless use of the word God in all things to FORCE the rest of the country to live by their desires. That is worse than the other side.
jw

Top
#12512 - 12/25/05 06:51 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
well, let's say all the money people invest in their religion went into scientific research to cure diseases. Wouldn't that be an improvement?
Let's also say that all the time and brain-power people use up praying was converted into time spent thinking of a good idea, a hobby, their families and friends, working on their talents, just plain fun. Wouldn't that also be an improvement? What if people didn't believe in a paradise that was promised to them when they die? They'd seek out to make their own paradise here and now. In this world, and not live in some cockeyed figment of their imagination. Mind you, this would probably result in a LOT of crime. Oh well, that should toughen the government up at least, unless they get corrupt as well (get corrupt- what am I saying?).

Top
#12513 - 12/25/05 11:53 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
well, let's say all the money people invest in their religion went into scientific research to cure diseases. Wouldn't that be an improvement?

REP: The money given to our church, (by believers, visitors are urged not to give), goes towards building homes for orphans in Romania and other places, and then pays for staff to work in them. It goes towards paying for African children to receive an education (not religious educations either). Is this of less value than money going to scientific research?

www.globalcare.org - set up by one of our church members.

We are where we are. We cannot ignore the needs of individuals, and concentrate entirely on research that will benefit the human race as a whole. We can't always live in the general, but need to move to the specific as well.

This is the problem with people who are dead against religion - they only see the crap and don't even hear about the many good things that are being done in religion's name, and even when you do you will say it is mercenary - we want to convert the recipient of our charity - this is simply not true - we are commanded to do good, and for no other reason than it is the right thing to do.

Regards,

Blacknad.

Top
#12514 - 12/26/05 12:03 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Let's also say that all the time and brain-power people use up praying was converted into time spent thinking of a good idea, a hobby, their families and friends, working on their talents, just plain fun. Wouldn't that also be an improvement?

REP:

American children spend more time watching TV than they do in school, according to Drs. Sege and Dietz in Pediatrics, October 1994.

Sixth and 12th grade California students who were heavy viewers of TV scored lower on reading, written expression and math achievement tests than students who viewed little or no television. (Judith Van Evra, p. 53.)

North Carolina fourth graders watch an average of four hours of TV per day, and 25% of the children watch six hours or more. (1992 Study.)

http://www.limitv.org/stats.htm


- Rob, you may need to aim your cannon somewhere else.

Studies have shown that meditation etc. is good for people. Prayer is not only about communicating with God - it is also about self reflection and is also very relaxing. In this crazy world where no one has time and people are stressed out and often don't even know themselves because they never pause to 'just be' - prayer has the side effect of being an antidote to this.

What else would you like to attack the religious for?

Regards,

Blacknad.

Top
#12515 - 12/26/05 12:11 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
What if people didn't believe in a paradise that was promised to them when they die? They'd seek out to make their own paradise here and now.

REP: I have covered this before. The reason I don't sit vegetating in front of a TV or even play computer games (which I love) is because the Bible makes it quite clear that I have a responsibility to live this life and do good for others, and I can't do that from in front of a goggle-box.

So on the contrary, people who have no belief in being accountable for anything they do are far more likely to waste their time with the inconsequential. Reality TV or Celebrity Magazine anyone?

Regards,

Blacknad.

Top
#12516 - 12/26/05 01:44 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
Post 1. Do you honestly believe they give all their money to charity? A small percentage maybe. Religion is just another money making buisness, don't be fooled by advertising.
P.S. Labs (instead of churches) could also give money to charity, what's stopping them?


Post 2. Well, that's the government's fault.

Post 3. Here is another classic example of religion ruining peoples lives. What do you think is gonna happen to you if you do play computer games -you wont get into 'heaven'? This makes me sick! If you enjoy it -flipping do it! Think about it this way, you'll be "doing good" for the providers of the games and consoles.

Top
#12517 - 12/26/05 09:54 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Post 1. Do you honestly believe they give all their money to charity? A small percentage maybe. Religion is just another money making buisness, don't be fooled by advertising.
P.S. Labs (instead of churches) could also give money to charity, what's stopping them?

REP: You are talking about organized religion. I am talking about people who freely follow the bible's teaching. I hate people who get fat on the proceeds of collection boxes as much as you would.

The statement that 'religion is just another money making business' may have some truth in it, but real Christianity is not a religion - it is made up of individual believers - free to interpret the bible by their own efforts.

Regards,

Blacknad.

Top
#12518 - 12/26/05 10:00 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Post 2. Well, that's the government's fault.

REP: You missed the point. And it's the government's job to regulate hours spent watching TV?

Regards,

Blacknad.

Top
#12519 - 12/26/05 10:27 AM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Post 3. Here is another classic example of religion ruining peoples lives. What do you think is gonna happen to you if you do play computer games -you wont get into 'heaven'? This makes me sick! If you enjoy it -flipping do it! Think about it this way, you'll be "doing good" for the providers of the games and consoles.

REP: Rob, I know why you dislike religion so much. If I had your level of misconception and misunderstanding, then I probably would too.

- "What do you think is gonna happen to you if you do play computer games -you wont get into 'heaven'? This makes me sick!"

REP: It would make me sick too. However, people are saved by God by the simple act of accepting what was achieved on the cross, and that alone. People don't get there by keeping rules - just as they don't get frozen out for not keeping them. Rob, you need to understand religion better and then, who knows, you may make a better job of attacking it - or you may realise it's not the great evil you presume it is.


I didn't put the computer games thing properly. I occasionally play. I just no longer own a console - it ate too much of my life. I just don't want to lie on my deathbed and think - 'there was a whole world out there for the living and you spent vast amounts of your life watching TV and playing computer games'. This is something everyone should think about, not just the religious.

- "If you enjoy it -flipping do it!"

REP: Post Modernity's Mantra. One step away from 'Do what thy will, shall be the whole of the law'.

Regards,

Blacknad.

Top
#12520 - 12/26/05 10:49 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
"REP: You missed the point. And it's the government's job to regulate hours spent watching TV?" The government sould (but probably will never) motivate young children to do the best they can with themselves. It would help society out a lot.

P.S. This is a personal account, curiosity is one of the main things that leads humans to do extraordinary things, the belief that infinite knowlege will one day be made available to you kills curiosity.

P.P.S. Please stop saying I misunderstand religion, don't forget, I WAS religious for over 10 years.

Top
#12521 - 12/27/05 03:40 PM Re: would an atheist world be a better one?
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
The problem is that we have genuine Christians in America, like Blacknad, who are being used and manipulated by maniacal Christians.

There's a beast in America, a political, manipulative, brainwashing, controlling, cruel, greedy and evolving BEAST. And it rears it's head on Christian Radio, news stations (ha), and newspapers.

And our little genuine Christians are like lambs to the slaughter, casting their votes for political leaders who's agendas are in accordance with THE BEAST.

Blacknad I'm sure you didn't vote this way, but a lot of your church members probably thought it was the "christian" thing to do. All because of wedge issues like abortion and gay marriage. There's so much more involved with running our country. The scary thing is that it will probably happen again in 2008. The lambs will be fooled by the BEAST, the wolf in sheep's clothing, AGAIN. What can we do????????????
_________________________
~Justine~

Top
Page 5 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >



Newest Members
debbieevans, bkhj, jackk, Johnmattison, RacerGT
865 Registered Users
Sponsor
Facebook

We're on Facebook
Join Our Group

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2016 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.