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#12314 - 01/10/06 07:44 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
Don't worry about anything, as soon as we discover how to teleport, everyone and everything in the universe will become immortal. Aliens may have already discvered how to teleport, therefore the entire universe may already be immortal. On the other (more probable) hand, teleportation is impossible. Oh well...

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#12315 - 01/10/06 08:21 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
"The point I am making is simply that those that from the safety of their own beds proclaim their faith are hypocrites. They all lose their faith when confronted with reality."

Dan,

I get what you are saying. I imagine that it is more than likely that I will die in some drawn out way, cancer or such. I cannot say whether I would give up on my faith, or grasp at everything apart from God to cling to life. I would hope not, and many do not, but in that nihilistic moment when everything breaks down before me and I realise that I am either facing my maker or oblivion, I cannot say how I would react. I am a weak individual at the best of times; I lived in the Middle East for a time and once found myself in an exclusive Shia Muslim anti-Westerner area by mistake. A place where a white boy like me doesn't go. Everywhere I walked people stopped what they were doing to stare. I am told that I was lucky that I wasn't taken. I know this - to be captured and tortured is my worst nightmare, and if someone was pulling my fingernails out, one after the other, I don't know whether I would denounce God to gain some respite - I hope not, but I haven't faced it yet. Well thinking about it, I am pretty sure I could last through the fingernails, but there are parts of my body that would be a greater test.

What I do know is that whether God actually exists or not is certainly not predicated on my ability to remain faithful.

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#12316 - 01/10/06 08:41 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
You're white!? You had me fooled.

Many of these silly torture victims would denounce god at that moment and resume the belief many years later when they are snug in their beds with some hot-chocolate, with the belief that they would be forgiven for their betrayal. What does this tell you about them?

The subject of torture brought madness to my mind (since the purpose of some tortures is to make the victim mad enough to not know what they are saying or revealing), so how does your religion explain what happens to these people that have senile dementia, multiple personality syndrome, amnesia etc... Do people with multiple personalities have multiple souls?

Here's a funny story, in Britain we have this thing called the Alpha Course, for christians to strengthen their belief. I went to 3 sessions as a favour to someone -later I was so proud of being an atheist that I made myself an atheist logo -THESE PEOPLE WERE ABSOLUTE MORONS. We would all sit in a circle like a bunch of saps and ask questions, my question one time was the multiple personality one, want to know the answer I got? Oh, ah, well (long pause) that question requires a lot of thought, shall we talk about it next week? Did they talk about it next week, yup -you guessed it -NO.

P.S. I don't actually wear the atheist logo. It was just made in the spur of the moment.
I'm not that sad. smile

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#12317 - 01/10/06 10:33 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Refusing to [renounce their faith], they were forced to lie down and a steamroller used in the highway construction was driven over them.

It seems that these Christians just can't win. They showed immense conviction of belief and courage and paid the ultimate price, but according to Rob they are morons.

If they had aquiesced, and saved their skins, then according to Dan they are hypocrites.

The moral for Christians is: Whether you're facing Dan, Rob, or Kim Jong Il, don't expect any sympathy.

Blacknad.

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#12318 - 01/10/06 10:53 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Do people with multiple personalities have multiple souls?

No, multiple personality syndrome is simply a psychological issue. These personas are distinct from the 'inner self' and are only manifestations of different aspects of one personality, used as a defense mechanism, usually when great trauma has been endured.

The idea of body, soul and spirit was stolen from greek philosophy and has no origin in Hebrew thought. Many theologists would dispute this kind of triality. Also, the idea that there is a part of us existing as a physicality, and also a part existing in a seperate spiritual dimension or state is not necessarily a part of modern theology.

I will not defend Alpha Christians - most Christians have never thought long enough or deep enough about what they believe, but just accept what church leaders tell them.

I will not defend the church either, but I find Christ to be consistent and dependable.

Blacknad.

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#12319 - 01/10/06 10:54 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
You're white!? You had me fooled.

LOL.


Blacknad.

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#12320 - 01/11/06 03:36 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Anonymous
Unregistered


Blacknad:
Do you know any persons with multiple personality disorder? Do you understand what causes it?

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#12321 - 01/11/06 11:21 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
Does this dog have multiple personalities or what?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8689366181727845562

I'm serious; does this dog have some sort of mental deficiency?

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#12322 - 01/11/06 02:14 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
Rob,
The Alpha Program is in America, too. I've been to it....dvd showings of the British course. That guy is charming, though. I think I was a little sick of him after 4 or so classes, too, though.
_________________________
~Justine~

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#12323 - 01/11/06 06:57 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Blacknad:
Do you know any persons with multiple personality disorder? Do you understand what causes it?


- Amaranth, good question and by what I wrote, obviously not. I just recycled stuff I thought I knew about it, without checking my facts.

I worked at a residential home in '93 - '94 where a girl had three distinct personalities - she had suffered extreme abuse, and this anecdotal evidence coupled with things I have read or heard in the past lead to my statement.

Obviously spending a little time 'netting' it, I can see that my comments were quite ignorant. There are many proposed reasons for dissociative identity from the wild and wacky to the idea of a purely different physical brain structure.

One of the things that would lead me to think that it is a fragmenting of a previously existing coherent personality is the following:

'Lack of MPD among children: If MPD is created by intolerable levels of child abuse during childhood, then one would expect to find MPD symptoms among many children. But MPD seems to be found almost exclusively among adults. In the years prior to 1979, only one case of MPD in a child was reported. By 1988, only 8 new cases had been found. By 1990, 9 additional cases were reported. This represents a minuscule percentage of the total MPD diagnoses.'

So a reaction to trauma may be out of the window, but it seems to be something that people develop - I am not sure that people are born with it. However, I'm not in a position to rule it out.

It's interesting and I'll read more - but that'll teach me to write without thinking.

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#12324 - 01/11/06 07:06 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Rob,

From what I know, people with MPD experience a complete shift from one personality to another, and sometimes will not even remember being the other person.

Great video, this dog is showing two distinct things happening at once.

It may be a disorder incorporating different selves. I suppose it could equally be that the reflex that causes it to scratch itself is triggering without it being consciously aware of it and it is freaking it out.

The dog should definitely be in a lab.

Alternatively you may be the first person to diagnose a dog with MPD.

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#12325 - 01/11/06 08:13 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Philege Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 184
Loc: United Kingdom
Blacknad:
Do you know any persons with multiple personality disorder? Do you understand what causes it?


- Amaranth, good question and by what I wrote, obviously not. I just recycled stuff I thought I knew about it, without checking my facts.

I worked at a residential home in '93 - '94 where a girl had three distinct personalities - she had suffered extreme abuse, and this anecdotal evidence coupled with things I have read or heard in the past lead to my statement.

Obviously spending a little time 'netting' it, I can see that my comments were quite ignorant. There are many proposed reasons for dissociative identity from the wild and wacky to the idea of a purely different physical brain structure.

One of the things that would lead me to think that it is a fragmenting of a previously existing coherent personality is the following:

'Lack of MPD among children: If MPD is created by intolerable levels of child abuse during childhood, then one would expect to find MPD symptoms among many children. But MPD seems to be found almost exclusively among adults. In the years prior to 1979, only one case of MPD in a child was reported. By 1988, only 8 new cases had been found. By 1990, 9 additional cases were reported. This represents a minuscule percentage of the total MPD diagnoses.'

So a reaction to trauma may be out of the window, but it seems to be something that people develop - I am not sure that people are born with it. However, I'm not in a position to rule it out.

It's interesting and I'll read more - but that'll teach me to write without thinking.

Regards,

Blacknad.


Demons! I'm telling you, these are demons.

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#12326 - 01/11/06 11:41 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Anonymous
Unregistered


There is a book about multiple personality disorder writtan by a person who has the problem. It it "When Rabbit Howls" by the troops for Truddi Chase. It is an excellent description of the problen and may lead to valuable insights.

I think the reason it does not get diagnosed in children more frequently is because children who have it have a personality that always shows up in the presence of medical personnel, so no medical person would observe it because the child always is consistent around them. It's only when you observe over a long period of time in various situations that the truth comes out.

And no, they are not demons. They are fragments of a whole personality that arise to deal with specific issues and abusers. The real demons are in the ones who perpetrated the child abuse in the first place. They are truly demon possessed, in my humble opinion.

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#12327 - 01/12/06 01:08 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
No, they just have another kind of mental disorder.

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#12328 - 01/12/06 01:15 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
No, they just have another kind of mental disorder.

- I think Amaranth was just making a point. It didn't extend to an admission of the existence of demons.

Blacknad.

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#12329 - 01/13/06 06:30 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
phew! smile

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#12330 - 01/14/06 04:54 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Anonymous
Unregistered


Unfortunately I am not feeling well to help keep the discussion as real as it used to be.
But still the objective of the topic remains to understand the essential role of the Conciousness in the Making of the Universe.
All diseases are merely born out of the desire to be close to the top of the Mayan or illusionist chain of successes and faileurs when none is happening.
The system itself provides you reasoned answers to keep you bounded in this chain.
Break the chain and you reach to the Self which is eternal and all prevailing and beyond Mathematical Reasoning.
It takes practice to do so.. it is not possible to make it happen in one day.
(Well this is not a call to convert.:-)) Remain what you are with dignity.. no one is superior to Nature.. no one till you find yourself)

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#12331 - 01/17/06 02:25 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally posted by dkv:

All diseases are merely born out of the desire to be close to the top of the Mayan or illusionist chain of successes and faileurs when none is happening.
I can understand this line of thinking just in looking around at all the diseases, accidents, illnesses, natural disasters, etc. that people face. Everyone's got something to overcome. Does anyone know anybody who has lived an average lifespan without any suffering or imperfection at all?
_________________________
~Justine~

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#12332 - 01/17/06 03:20 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
If we were to assume that life is not pointless and has meaning... I do see alot of learning in all these crazy defects, illnesses and suffering.

It seems like the soul has to learn to give up control. Let others take care of us. Other people or a higher power. Or maybe they are one in the same.

It's such a huge thing to realize we can't control our lives...we influence our lives but we do not have control.

That's the big first step that heals many addicts. That first step...I can't remember the wording but I understand the first steps basically encourage the individual to realize they can't control their addiction and turn over the reigns to their higher power (and each other)....And it works...Weird but true.

Religion can be a form of control or a way for us to control our reality, too. People who live beyond the rules, secularly, give up that control.

If we can realize and accept that we don't control anything, that we only have some influence on even our own lives...maybe so many harsh lessons wouldn't be presented to us. And the other side to those lessons are that though we can't always manage (control) our life on our own, many challenges are manageable when we depend on each other.

It's an interesting thought if we are all one organism made up of the illusion of being seperate parts and we are trying to teach ourself that single lesson through all kinds suffering. Suffering well joy as well because we learn interdependence through love and joy, too.

Funny how all the natural psychosocial developmental stages teach us autonomy when the real lesson (meaning?) in life is interdependence.
_________________________
~Justine~

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#12333 - 01/18/06 07:18 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Anonymous
Unregistered


If we were to assume that life is not pointless and has meaning... I do see alot of learning in all these crazy defects, illnesses and suffering.
REP: Yes ... there is a lot to learn.Every disease has a leasson in built into it.Its for the benefit of Life to carry on itself for the longest time.Indeed Life itself wants to remain immortal.
=========================================
It seems like the soul has to learn to give up control. Let others take care of us. Other people or a higher power. Or maybe they are one in the same.
REP: Interesting but once you loose you know you have gained yourself.You are in the domain of Peferction where the linearity is merely your answer to impress others and non-linearity is to make your own self the desire of Universe.
Universe attracts you like your soulmate who obeys your every desire.
=============================================
It's such a huge thing to realize we can't control our lives...we influence our lives but we do not have control.
REP: Answer to that is we often mess up our own lives by ignoring the underlying truth of Nature.
Just like m-theory.It happens before every revolution.Not a surprise to me but sadly it still surprises not many.
=======================================
That's the big first step that heals many addicts. That first step...I can't remember the wording but I understand the first steps basically encourage the individual to realize they can't control their addiction and turn over the reigns to their higher power (and each other)....And it works...Weird but true.
REP: Addicts or no-addicts it doesnt matter.Life gave you a gift .. just like Alexander got his own and used for his own desires.
=============================================
Religion can be a form of control or a way for us to control our reality, too. People who live beyond the rules, secularly, give up that control.
REP: Hmmm.. Secularly the nature treats everyone on the same footing.Gives you a lot.So much that no Weirdo can give you.It offers you the Universe and they all they promise is some short story.

If we can realize and accept that we don't control anything, that we only have some influence on even our own lives...maybe so many harsh lessons wouldn't be presented to us. And the other side to those lessons are that though we can't always manage (control) our life on our own, many challenges are manageable when we depend on each other.

It's an interesting thought if we are all one organism made up of the illusion of being seperate parts and we are trying to teach ourself that single lesson through all kinds suffering. Suffering well joy as well because we learn interdependence through love and joy, too.

Funny how all the natural psychosocial developmental stages teach us autonomy when the real lesson (meaning?) in life is interdependence.

Top
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