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#12274 - 12/15/05 04:01 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
What if all of our I-Exists are really exactly the same? What if our internall observers are identical?
Our personalities, behaviors and whatnot are diffent because of genetics and environmental experiences. But what about the I-Exists? They could be the same couldn't they? Because in my mind I don't necessarily feel male or female even though my personality is extremely feminine.
It could even extend to animals. All the same internal identity just enclosed in the borders of our senses.
_________________________
~Justine~

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.
#12275 - 12/16/05 05:10 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Anonymous
Unregistered


What if all of our I-Exists are really exactly the same?
DKV: Quite Possible if you can allow Reference to be Translated without bringing any Physical Changes in what you Observe.But we know this is not happening.In nature there is natural limit to accuracy of your results and this result depends on what kind of reference frame you choose.Most of us use Classical Mathematical Models to plot the History but unfortunately it is not working anymore for good logical reasons.
Assuming all reference frames can be translated to any level then we have a situation where the Net Information Content reduces to Nothing and also it leads to collapse of Discreetness at some level of Understanding.But in order to 'Live' the World we need Information and this translates to finding multiplicity in Nature.
However this doesnot mean that Complete Knowledge doesnt exist. All it means is that the Expression of Complete Knowledge needs the Next Evolutionary step (which appears to be beyond the Usual Mathematics).With our current fundamentals we have reached the dead end.We need some of the Brain Cells to say yes there is world beyond what I see and learn.This is how evolution works.A cell must learn something drastically new at some point of time.
============================================
What if our internall observers are identical?
DKV: What do you mean Internal Observers here?
==========================================
Our personalities, behaviors and whatnot are diffent because of genetics and environmental experiences. But what about the I-Exists? They could be the same couldn't they? Because in my mind I don't necessarily feel male or female
DKV: If you are living in Absolute Information Space then yes What you see is just the Information you completely know.Making everything look equal to something including yourself.
===========================================
even though my personality is extremely feminine.
DKV: All I can say is perfectly okay to feel feminine.And God or some final theory can never ever discriminate.This goes against the principle of Sexual Evolution.Unless some cells found the feminine state to be advantageous they would not have not chosen the so-called inferior state.Probably in the end it is the Women who rules with pride in herself for being what she is.
=============================================

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#12276 - 12/16/05 02:06 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
Let me try to explain my idea more clearly. I think it's somewhat radical.

For example. Each "ghost in the machine" has the same identity. Each of us have our internal dialoge, but there's also the observer of our internal dialoge. The abstract individual identity that watches us through our experiences: grief, anger, whatnot.

So when I generate an idea that's somehow grasped by my observer or innermost being, then the idea filters down into my internal dialogue where I put my idea into words. This is where all my genetics and learned social behaviors modify my expression of the originall idea because for example, I'll use learned language affected by my culture, my education, even my gender. It's proven women tend to use passive language while men use more competitive wording.

And then in order for another person to communicate with me, they read my language choices and filter it through their own judgements based on their personality, education, backround, etc. And could either resonate or bulk at my original concept causing their innermost being to feel as though it's a completely different identity.

But perhaps we have one innermost identity looking out of millions of different eyes or windows.

So the death of an individual's consciousness is more like a universal consciousness shutting or blinking an eye.

So I'm not really talking to "you", I'm merely having a conversation with myself. Taking into account layers and layers of filters between me and me.
_________________________
~Justine~

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#12277 - 12/17/05 12:45 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Justine,

This is not radical or new. The idea has had an expression in Eastern Mysticism for millenia and many New-Age followers believe exactly that.

I would ask why a many-eyed Universal Consciousness constantly inflicts so much damage upon itself as the human race manages to.

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#12278 - 12/17/05 03:40 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
originaly posted by dkv:
"The life and death is subject of wide speculation and it has a strong relation with God especially death. The life has already taken its shape for us and thus what remains is death.
To which God do I affiliate and if there is no God then what happens to my Science.AS I Die do the knowledge that I-exist become zero in time?
If so then assuming that no one else can claim to call himself as myself,Then we can say that The Information can get lost from the system irrecoverably.Similary as I grow at somepoint of time I-Exist becomes Finite and as I can not be exactly as any other I we say that system can create knowledge.Thus Differentiation of I leading to knowledge of events .. thus conservation of Knowledge doesnt hold in both the Cases as I is lost or gained completely(using means not found in system).
Against this there lies an equally important case of Knowledge remains same as I at anypoint of time and thus Conservation of Knowledge holds as this was the net information at any point of time and it is present even now ..which is only and only I-exist.Leading to pure Quantum Mechanical effect with infinite possibilities.during decay leading to spontaneous Manifestation.
Which is real?"

My reply:
cjcnakcaquantumcbdkdjmouse and that's the green turtle's choice.

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#12279 - 12/19/05 05:27 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Anonymous
Unregistered


Let me try to explain my idea more clearly. I think it's somewhat radical.
For example. Each "ghost in the machine" has the same identity. Each of us have our internal dialoge, but there's also the observer of our internal dialoge. The abstract individual identity that watches us through our experiences: grief, anger, whatnot.
REP:Without complicating things I think it is best possible to understand Brain as a group of I's.I mean Qunatized Information Space with different specializations. Primarily all individuals are associated with the Larger Information BalckHolish I. And this is the reason when asked our brain creates multiple answers. But ultimately the decision to correlate and associate all the information into One comes down one section of Self.This is called I(whether or not it is a fixed area is different subject matter). Thus whether you only analyze the information(by looking internally) or you observe and react (by looking externally) ... the same "I" comes into picture as it has the responsibility to associate with all other I's in your brain.Thus you as an I is one and only one.All others are just your senior officers of your body orgnaization.You are the king of yourself.And I just dont mind if somebody calls me King !!:-))
==========================================
So when I generate an idea that's somehow grasped by my observer or innermost being, then the idea filters down into my internal dialogue where I put my idea into words.
REP: I think you should abandon the sequential processing Idea.Brain doesnt like to porcess sequentially.You generate Idea like an Organization.What are you depends upon your affinity for the type of post you would like to hold in your head.
===========================================
This is where all my genetics and learned social behaviors modify my expression of the originall idea because for example, I'll use learned language affected by my culture, my education, even my gender. It's proven women tend to use passive language while men use more competitive wording.
REP: Yes. Differences are there in the attitudes and Amplitudes of Men and Women.AS women and men associate different meanings to real life.AS they understand each other they understand how weak they are with respect to the other.
==========================================
And then in order for another person to communicate with me, they read my language choices and filter it through their own judgements based on their personality, education, backround, etc. And could either resonate or bulk at my original concept causing their innermost being to feel as though it's a completely different identity.
REP:The information and processes are different but not I.In some accidents the "I" can get completely lost making the person incapable of thinking inside or outside..
==========================================
But perhaps we have one innermost identity looking out of millions of different eyes or windows.
REP: Yes thats what I said ... You are group of I's and with some one more intelligent at handling information.Which you should call as I.
=========================================
So the death of an individual's consciousness is more like a universal consciousness shutting or blinking an eye.
REP: We will try to discuss it in a seprate thread.
=============================================
So I'm not really talking to "you", I'm merely having a conversation with myself. Taking into account layers and layers of filters between me and me.
REP: Hmm .. thats a crazy idea unless you can prove me that I do not exist.:-))

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#12280 - 12/19/05 02:35 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
DKV,

Thank you for taking the time to analyze and respond to my ideas.

Your description of all the Is in me makes sense. Now can you tell me if my King I is always King or do I have a Royal Cabinet that takes turns wearing the crown?

If there's only one King I is it possible that all mankind's King I's are multituplits seperated at birth?

You see with this idea it's not that you, DKV, or you, Blacknad, do not exist. It's just that you are me. And the reason humanity or I inflict so much damage upon myself (or yourself) is because we don't realize this is the case.

But, this idea terrifies me, honestly. Because it makes me lonely to think it.
_________________________
~Justine~

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#12281 - 12/21/05 10:05 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Anonymous
Unregistered


Your description of all the Is in me makes sense. Now can you tell me if my King I is always King or do I have a Royal Cabinet that takes turns wearing the crown?
REP: Your King is always the Same.In a democratic world it may be difficult to digest but yes the king remains the same. He is some where Localized in some Space of your brain.But who actually rules depends on your method of configuring the information. It can be balanced or Biased.Democracy can be called as a more balanced system as it gives equal footing to all (at least in theory!).

===================================
If there's only one King I is it possible that all mankind's King I's are multituplits seperated at birth?
REP: Society is just another entity which can be considerd as a seperate Living Being. It acts like a Human Being. You can also take various Business Organizations as Individuals consisting of individuals.
=======================================
You see with this idea it's not that you, DKV, or you, Blacknad, do not exist. It's just that you are me. And the reason humanity or I inflict so much damage upon myself (or yourself) is because we don't realize this is the case.
REP: Yes at some level of Understanding it is true. But can you carry the burden of I .. it is equivalent to calling yourself GOD and asking others to follow you.The Cross was the Self of Lord.
=============================================
But, this idea terrifies me, honestly. Because it makes me lonely to think it.
REP: I think you should now reconsider your opinion about your feelings ...I is pure.It is the most beautiful of all the Concepts.
It can make you feel very satisfied if you really understand the meaning of the Concept.
It can give you the ultimate security of Life.
It can act like your faith.It can make the impossible happen!!
Otherwise why will someone try to conquer the World.

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#12282 - 12/21/05 03:25 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
So for my lifetime my King I is incapsulated by my senses. And throughout my lifetime King I learns. What happens to the learning when I pass on?
Does my learning only bennefit the life consiousness only if I use my learning to infuluence others?
And will my particular stran of the King I or my piece of God, piece of myself dissipate at my death? So I as a whole will not die, but I as Justine will no longer be experienced.

So with this concept, I get to be GOD. But I also get to die. No heaven unless we make it for ourself on earth.
_________________________
~Justine~

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#12283 - 12/22/05 12:49 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Justine,

Can you explain the train of thought that leads you to believe that we are all one - without starting from an assumption?

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#12284 - 12/22/05 07:12 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Anonymous
Unregistered


So for my lifetime my King I is incapsulated by my senses. And throughout my lifetime King I learns. What happens to the learning when I pass on?
REP:Your existence has already changed the Information Content of the Universe.After Death you may or may not have an option of carrying the information.But consider from the point of View of Human Learning Process and Psychology.What lesson will you like to carry on in the next possible world? Do wish to remember all the theories you were told ? Will you like to be called Ancient in your next life? Will it be possible to learn something new without forgetting some old doubt(knowledge comes from doubt)?Will you be able to cope up with the emotional consequence of finding your own people forgetting you at several occasions(slowly but surely)?
What would you like to carry in your next world?
Surely you will loose things which are false.Things which can inhibit your growth in the next possible life.Death is often called the death of some doubt.It provides something which is for certain.Beyond Doubt.Death helps life to maintain its joy.
Think if no one dies then what kind of Life we will have ? Some problems will remain forever just as some lucky guys will remain happy forever.
Some Indian Saints try to become those lucky ones but they often choose informational death over Physical Death.They reduce there Information content to one concept and then finally Nothing.
(But this is not the only way to remain to happy forever.)
==========================================
Does my learning only bennefit the life consiousness only if I use my learning to infuluence others?
REP: Your interaction no matter how small will defintely trickle down in the Ocean of Conciousness.Learning to influence others in what sense? I mean few teachers do not speak a word and tell the whole story.Its a fact.
All they demand is total surrender to their methodology.
=========================================
And will my particular stran of the King I or my piece of God, piece of myself dissipate at my death? So I as a whole will not die, but I as Justine will no longer be experienced.
REP: Again why will you like to be remembered as Justine.
I am using Evolutionary principles of Learning to derive possible meaning of Death.
yes you will definetly carry your passion.
But why? To answer this we need to more research in the physical nature of Life and Death.
=============================================
So with this concept, I get to be GOD. But I also get to die.
REP: Wise men do not disregard this fact of life.
And they know what to do without fear of destiny.
The most important part is the realization that Death offers a unique opportunity to Grow Beyond what you are today.Just as every technology needs to forget the old one without forgetting the principles...we die to forget which is ought to be forgotten and to remember whatever is worth remembering.Suicide or Murder do not give to benefit of a graceful exit.
=============================================
No heaven unless we make it for ourself on earth.
REP: Yes ... we need to make it.But the technology is very old.

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#12285 - 12/22/05 01:09 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally posted by Blacknad:
Justine,

Can you explain the train of thought that leads you to believe that we are all one - without starting from an assumption?

Regards,

Blacknad.
Sorry, the train of thought starts with an assumption, really, playing with the opposite of a typical assumption. Most people I know seem to believe that we are all individual souls like individual snowflakes. And I just turned that assumption around to see where it would lead me.
So the new assumption is that we are the exact same "experiencer".

Psychologists say that infants have to learn to distinguish themselves as seperate entities from their environment and their mother. A baby doesn't begin by assuming it is an individual snowflake. It's learned by interaction with reality.

Infants definitely have individual personalities from the start but the sense of self could still be identical to ours with the personality as a filter enclosing it.

Their life experience witll be completely different than mine, but their life experiencer could be identical, except for the learing they accrue over their life time. So it's almost just a different perspective in space. They are in a different body, hooked up to their own sensory connections and have had all different life trials and tribulations plus their genetic makeup is different. But other than that, inside, at at a conscious level, their conciousness could "feel" like mine.

At this point does this work for any atheists? At death the stran of consciousness and its unique "learning" could dissipate without the container of the brain. And the energy of conciousness becomes part of the force of evolution, the force of nature.

or


Does it work at all for any Christians if we add heaven as a subjective place where we slowly disrobe of our filters as our individual stran of consciousness journeys until it reunites with the force of nature or God.

or

Does it work with reincarnation if somehow all the learning isn't completely shed and multiple lives are experienced before eventually, finally, sheding the "learning" and then entering the intangible force of nature or Nirvana?

Or what if we shed everything except for lessons learned and then this learning is assimilated into the foce of nature.

All suppositon really. I'm getting a little lost in it at this point. The original basic idea questions if our individual consciousness "feels" the same or are we unique? Is there any way to test it? I don't think so. Maybe a psychologist could think of a way to test the theory. But, the subjective feeling of our identity is probably unobservable I suppose.

We may be like bubbles of awareness floating around in said same awareness.
Or
bubbles of awareness floating around in particles.
_________________________
~Justine~

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#12286 - 12/22/05 08:08 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
Death is often called the death of some doubt.It provides something which is for certain.Beyond Doubt.Death helps life to maintain its joy.
Think if no one dies then what kind of Life we will have ?

Rep: Yes I understand what you're saying here, but I also think that death gives us an excuse to not accept responsibility for the world we live in. Many people are not interested in the world because they are more interested in the afterlife.

================================================


Some Indian Saints try to become those lucky ones but they often choose informational death over Physical Death.They reduce there Information content to one concept and then finally Nothing.
(But this is not the only way to remain to happy forever.)

Rep: Do you mean being in a fixed state of ZEN or something along those lines? Are you speaking of Indian Saints doing this in life or in an afterlife experience?
==========================================
MY ORIGINAL QUESTION: Does my learning only bennefit the life consiousness only if I use my learning to influence others?

YOUR REP: Your interaction no matter how small will defintely trickle down in the Ocean of Conciousness.Learning to influence others in what sense? I mean few teachers do not speak a word and tell the whole story.Its a fact.
All they demand is total surrender to their methodology.

Rep: Sorry I was a little unclear. I was only talking about a trickle down effect not as in becoming a master teacher.
I meant like if I learn about kindness and am kind to my children who are in turn kind to thier children and so forth. Or if I were to invent something brilliant and it was to be implemented and used for the good of the environment or humanity after I pass on.

It really bothers me when someone asks another person to surrender to their methodology or spiritual path. I consider it as horrible as stealing someone's mind, will, and identity from them.
But I do believe in great teachers and also agree that some great teachers tell a whole story without speaking a word.
=================================================
But I as Justine will no longer be experienced.
REP: Again why will you like to be remembered as Justine.

Rep: True. I mean I can accept losing my identity if that's the way it works. And if the larger identity feels the same as my previous awareness than I would only lose or forget my characteristics (filters) and gain my pure self. It would be important for me in life to identify myself with my concious awareness but not necessarily with my personality. Otherwise It might feel as though I loose myself. So meditation is important for this reason, to get used to the feeling of pure awareness.

=================================================
I am using Evolutionary principles of Learning to derive possible meaning of Death.
yes you will definetly carry your passion.
But why? To answer this we need to more research in the physical nature of Life and Death.

Rep: will "I" carry my passion over or will my passion simply BE carried over? Is passion the fuel of evolution?

=============================================
Just as every technology needs to forget the old one without forgetting the principles...we die to forget which is ought to be forgotten and to remember whatever is worth remembering.

Rep: Do you mean humanity as a whole remembers so that humanity as a whole evolves without history repeating itself? Our humanity has things a little bungled right now. We're not forgetting the worthless and rembering the worthwhile. We may have it backwards at the moment. Hopefully, we will remember the worthwhile as a unified planet.....eventually.

Or... do you mean as an individually evolving entity, through reincarnation I only remember worthwhile information? Could be true. I feel myself evolving just in this lifetime alone.
=============================================
No heaven unless we make it for ourself on earth.
YOUR REP: Yes ... we need to make it.But the technology is very old.

Rep: when you say "technology", do you mean the information our souls remember from previous lifetimes or do you mean the information and lessons humanity has learned collectively over time?
_________________________
~Justine~

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#12287 - 12/23/05 06:13 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Anonymous
Unregistered


So the new assumption is that we are the exact same "experiencer".
REP:This assumption is equivalent to saying that the Universe is completely comprehensible using some Theory.Everything can be reduced to some kind of knowledge.Thus making everything the expression of the same. True.
But what about the difference in my view and your view.My experience and your experience.
This is due to the dual nature of knowledge itself.Although complete knowledge exists it can not fully demonstrated.and using the existing technology it is not even possible to measure the Coherence between the Group memebers.(I had suggested A Group Excercise which we unfortunately left undiscussed.)
Thus Multiplicity or Multiple Interpretations of the events(and thus the experience) are due to the limited nature of Knowledge Transfer Medium.
Putting my Thoughts on a Paper is tough excercise.I Actually loose some of it while writing.Now this may sound little weird but it is a fact. The knowledge is all inside us and the moment you try to convince me ... you loose some of your understanding.Well I know it is difficult in the Age of Computers to understand such simple concepts of Uncertainity Principle and Limited Knowledge Velocity but it effects all of us.The illusion is valid consequence of Knowledge Interference which can be overcome by adopting superior technology.Who is going to give us this gift this Christmas?But the real question is Should we ask ?Our future depends on those who deny it.
=========================================
Yes I understand what you're saying here, but I also think that death gives us an excuse to not accept responsibility for the world we live in.
Many people are not interested in the world because they are more interested in the afterlife.
REP: Valid accusation if you consider them outside the Life Cycle.. but they are not.They are very much part of our Life Cycle.Ever Experienced a Miracle in your life.. Ever thought that why someone helped you for no reason.Why we go to Church or temple if it offers no real solutions? If you understand your responsibility then nothing like it.Undertake it with confidence and those who had quit will come back to help you.
==========================================
Do you mean being in a fixed state of ZEN or something along those lines? Are you speaking of Indian Saints doing this in life or in an afterlife experience?
REP: Zen is there but it is expressable.. isnt it? Thus it is no more superior than our Qunatum Science.. what I am saying here is something beyond. The Knowledge you can have complete certainity. All you need is a new technology.
A radical new approach to thought processing leading to Brain evolution.
==========================================
Sorry I was a little unclear. I was only talking about a trickle down effect not as in becoming a master teacher.
I meant like if I learn about kindness and am kind to my children who are in turn kind to thier children and so forth. Or if I were to invent something brilliant and it was to be implemented and used for the good of the environment or humanity after I pass on.
REP: Excellent Idea.After good and bad you have done gets carried to your next life(according to Gita..thats what I have read.Dont worry if you have not..)
=========================================
It really bothers me when someone asks another person to surrender to their methodology or spiritual path. I consider it as horrible as stealing someone's mind, will, and identity from them.
REP: Honestly yes. If you are happy in your Self then no should rob you off your happiness.Unless you find something or someone resonant to your own self... embrace it with Love.If something provides you better answer then I guess you will not mind giving its well deserved respect.
==========================================
True. I mean I can accept losing my identity if that's the way it works. And if the larger identity feels the same as my previous awareness than I would only lose or forget my characteristics (filters) and gain my pure self. It would be important for me in life to identify myself with my concious awareness but not necessarily with my personality. Otherwise It might feel as though I loose myself. So meditation is important for this reason, to get used to the feeling of pure awareness.
REP: Greater your Age greater are the chances of you being the Holy Entity who holds the Larger Self.Who lives longer Male or Female?
=================================
will "I" carry my passion over or will my passion simply BE carried over? Is passion the fuel of evolution?
REP: Passion is something which belongs to You in your current form.Thats why people who enjoy doing what they love to do.Work is still done but it is effortless.. pain is still there but it is sweet.Passion fuels the Evolution.Agree.Someone did more than what others were doing.
==========================================
Do you mean humanity as a whole remembers so that humanity as a whole evolves without history repeating itself?
REP: Humanity as a whole evolves and yes it has its own memory. :-))Nothing new here ... it becomes obvious for Cells but only less obvious for Humans.Thats all.It is the most difficult yet the most obvious concept to digest.Suddenly we refuse to believe in Void capable of holding Information.
=============================================
Our humanity has things a little bungled right now. We're not forgetting the worthless and rembering the worthwhile. We may have it backwards at the moment. Hopefully, we will remember the worthwhile as a unified planet.....eventually.
REP: Yes Indeed and then we will have a peaceful coexistence with everything around us.Hopefully We will all be happy.
==============================================
when you say "technology", do you mean the information our souls remember from previous lifetimes or do you mean the information and lessons humanity has learned collectively over time?
REP: We have learned few concpets we fogotten few concpets.I am talking about future we need to find a greater technology for making our dreams of knowing " What is Universe?" come true..
Amen.
Merry Christmas to all as probably this will be my last email before the day.
==============================================

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#12288 - 12/23/05 02:21 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
Thank you DKV,

I resonate with you on many ideas. I love the word resonate because it represents the meeting of minds and hearts while providing a description of the sensation of that meeting.

I don't know if I NEED the concept of disencarnate beings influencing reality on earth. For every miracle there is a trajedy so it doesn't prove otherwise. An atheist can have a universal understanding of life and also incorporate some religious concepts. For instance, the concept of "I AM".

I'm coming to an understanding of GOD as the entity of the continuum of life that encompasses and "is" the awareness inside all thinking beings and their relationships with one another, as well as the particles of energy and the relationship between said particles of energy which constitute life. I am understanding this GOD as an evolving entity moving towards an existance where intelligent, rational beings live in purposeful harmony with their environment and in harmony with each other, hense, in harmony with their existance. There's a chance this heaven could someday be Earth, there's certainty that it will exist somewhere because evolution is a constant forward movement. Time is irrelevent. Whether life eventually exists in community upon many planets or whether or not only on planet Earth or not on Earth at all is unimportant. The harmony of thinking creatures WILL exist in perfection.

It is my assumption that this is a neverending process because once complete harmony is achieved and GOD can no further evolve because technical and subjective perfection has been realized, than GOD collapses and regenerates with a BIG BANG because life is a constant state of movement. So GOD (life) is an eternal cycle of evolution to BANG to evolution to BANG...eternally. Heaven is eternal because the process is eternal. We are in the process of becoming Heaven.

So Christ only exists as the awareness in each other. The same goes for all the saints, prophets, and all of our relatives who have passed. All personalities are temporal but the exciting thing is that there are always NEW personalities to meet and love. And we can commune with past personalities by going within ourselves and experiencing our own awareness as their past awarenesses. Love ourselves in order to love each other. Love each other as the way to truly love ourselves.
_________________________
~Justine~

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#12289 - 12/26/05 05:20 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Anonymous
Unregistered


It is my assumption that this is a neverending process because once complete harmony is achieved and GOD can no further evolve because technical and subjective perfection has been realized, than GOD collapses and regenerates with a BIG BANG because life is a constant state of movement. So GOD (life) is an eternal cycle of evolution to BANG to evolution to BANG...eternally. Heaven is eternal because the process is eternal. We are in the process of becoming Heaven.
DKV: AS I said there is nothing called as NeverEnding. God(or Godliness) can be reached.
What makes things never Ending is the technology.
The limitation of the medium of expression.
Including the theory which I had laid down for the mass benefit.The net result is a continumm of Answers.It says the degree of possibilities increase or decrease with your technology.
If landing on the Moon rules your imagination then there must be a much more efficient means to do so.Otherwise why so much of Space has been wasted when all you were asking for was the Moon.

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#12290 - 12/27/05 03:10 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
Interesting point. So would you say technology is the material representation of our subjective passion (imagination, hunger,)? That our passion is our SEARCH for happiness, knowledge, inner peace, etc.?
But I wonder, if we were to find inner peace, would it be in reaching with our technology towards the moon and beyond?
Or would we find inner peace by reaching with our technology towards the earth, within nature's fragile balance and within each other?

You said Godliness can be reached. If that's true then that implies reason for search.

Perhaps Godliness can be realized instead of "reached".

I can realize that at the deepest level everyone around me feels just like me at thier deepest level. They just have different perfections and imperfections than I do. And the concept of God feels just like me without the imperfections. And the concept of Devil is just me WITH all the imperfections.
_________________________
~Justine~

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#12291 - 12/28/05 05:12 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Anonymous
Unregistered


Interesting point. So would you say technology is the material representation of our subjective passion (imagination, hunger,)?
REP:This question has immediate consequence of asking who was the first Man.When did he first imagine and what?
I would like to give this answer later but let ask a more interesting and reachable answer.
When was the Universe Born ?We reply as if there was a time when it never existed.
Now imagine Universe as a consequence of Subjective Interpretation of some Ancient Man.
So it becomes a brilliant answer to your question ..Evolvution is all about becoming that Ancient One.It is drastically different than what current Science would tell you. But the advantage here is that you get to know your ultimate Goal...And gives meaning to your existence.It gives all of us a supreme father.
=====================================
That our passion is our SEARCH for happiness, knowledge, inner peace, etc.?
REP: Yes.Indeed.
========================================
But I wonder, if we were to find inner peace, would it be in reaching with our technology towards the moon and beyond?
REP: Why not ? I mean if someone can discover America and make it make a World to remember in almost every memory...Then why cant we ask for more ...but sadly the sequential evolutionary method doesnt work. Some will like to go the Moon and Beyond and Some will like to go beyond Galaxie and Some will like to be the Ancient Man(or whatever).
There many immediate Options but only one final Answer.
==========================================
Or would we find inner peace by reaching with our technology towards the earth, within nature's fragile balance and within each other?
REP:Honestly there is a need to see Earth in a new light of this discovery.Why is it required for us to remain alive on this planet? How does it matter to the poor, weak and depressed?
Answers you will have to find in our evolutionary Past.
===========================================
You said Godliness can be reached. If that's true then that implies reason for search.
REP:Yes if Godliness means knowing all.All can be known and it offers benefit similar to what humans have over Monkeys.
========================================
Perhaps Godliness can be realized instead of "reached".
REP:The process of Reaching leads to Realization. It is as mechanical as that.
But without anyone of them the question is meaningless.
===========================================
I can realize that at the deepest level everyone around me feels just like me at thier deepest level. They just have different perfections and imperfections than I do. And the concept of God feels just like me without the imperfections.
And the concept of Devil is just me WITH all the imperfections.
REP: Sincerely your emotional valuation of Devil needs to replaced by Knowledge.All your imperfections need to be understood in the light of Knowledge.Why is it that imperfections exist in the first place?
The very seed which gave us perfection also gave us imperfection.It is possible to go beyond both.
The love and knowledge makes this possible.

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#12292 - 12/28/05 07:13 AM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Anonymous
Unregistered


Since most of the time we find ourselves rotating around some concpet .. I wonder how many of see something very obvious here.
As an illustration of the concept of Consciousness I would like to share some more ideas with you.
It is important for all of us to really feel the impact of new ideas in terms of our fears and opportunities.

Think of Monkeys who are very smart.
They know how to get things done.
But still something is found missing in their evolutionary change.. they have not invented fire.They have failed to grasp the concept of Holding on to the fire(Generated or Natural).
Why cant the society of Monkeys learn to burn the fire during the Winters?
Or at least hold fire in their defence.
They are afraid of it.
In their Conciousness they need to overcome this fear in order to take the next step.
How do they see this photonic technology?
They see it as a threat.
Individually they may have a good reason to fear it.
But why do they fail collectively if there is anything called as additive Supreme Conciousness...(It exists let us assume)
If we are talking about a small sample of Monkeys then such a miracle is not expected to happen.
But when we think about them collectively in large numbers then we can definitely ask for more interesting answers..

Naturally there was something missing in their collective Understanding and it was just the numbers.Just after having a sufficient numbers some interesting decisions were taken and some evolved into Humans and then they forgot about their past.
And I am sure that this particular missing link which they discovered was to learn to cooperate with Weak Intelligent Memebers outside the concept of Physical Strength Supremacy.
Inevitably the Jungle law refuses to let the Weak Prosper.. but havent we grown beyond this age old concept.

In Our case we understand the importance of helping the weak or poor.The desire to help others comes to us instinctively ..before we called it a fashion.And the reasons are embedded in our past ...where we detached the meaning of Weak from Mentally Weak...
The weak was given his share of Food and Sex without much physical bullying.
It was the first Wierd Decision we ever took and since then we have created history.
A history which appears like a Movie now as we have forgotten everything about it.
We now tracking back our existence.
Thus in Evolutionary Cycle there are multiple Origin Points .... depending upon your belongingness.(Hope it solves the Origin Problem)
Now let us take the case of Universe ...
What ever we have known and whatever we have experienced was true to the extent of being some xyz kind of species..
Now what does the next evolution demands .. it demands a new technology of Life.
Where does this technology comes from ?
A good source to know will be our fears... what do we collectively fear in our struggle for Survival?
What were the Monkeys afraid of?
They were afraid of loosing their traditional mental process.The number of known Topics which they discussed would have suddenly decreased as all their learned instincts were told to be wrong.
Effortless communication process was asked to change suddenly .. just as if we ask Satellites to change their dates to be in sync with Earth Time.
The number of events in the sexual space decreased to some single controversy.
Whether weak's suggestion that fire can help us in almost every field should be acknowledged or not and as a consequence whether his followers should be allowed to live in Peace or not.For them the Fire was the God ...
Someone's fear was someone's God.
For many years they knew its value before starting to realize it.
And then slowly the number of Topics increased to make us what we are today.

Assume that even today we are facing a similar case.We are asked to believe in the new power of technology.
Technology of consciousness.
Technology which gave us so many answers is now asking us to accept a radically new self centered concept.
Thats what has helped us to trace our past.
Isnt it true that we are deeply divided along these lines?Psychological Doctors will hunt any down who belives in this kind of Idea ... but its the fire Monkeys were afraid of.
Isnt it true that we need to acknowledge the value of Consciousness?
Isnt it true that its power largely remains untapped?
Isnt it true that the power to live in "Universe" makes our future much more interesting and alive?
It can make our relationship very rich with the Supreme Being.
It satisfys both the male and female aspirations.
Hope it gives you a brighter picture of the future.
MGB

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#12293 - 12/29/05 01:31 PM Re: Adam, Eve and Me
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
True, we have to move beyond fear to grasp the true essense of Ancient Mind.

Funny, on another link we were discussing what someone who could think, but lost all senses would do. Someone said they would probably try to visualize a game of chess to play with themselves.

So why wouldn't an Ancient Mind do the same thing? Split itself into a billion perspectives and work out harmony between these perspectives as a great puzzle a great game. The origin of life was merely setting up the game board within the Ancient Mind itself.
_________________________
~Justine~

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