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#10302 - 01/04/06 12:39 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
"I am an atheist, but I believe in the possibility of Intelligent Design."
...But to believe in ID as the origin of all life is preposterous -right?

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#10303 - 01/04/06 02:18 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
mark5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/20/05
Posts: 11
Loc: tallahassee, fl, us
Beliefs are not preposterous. But each set has fallacies, just as the belief system of SCIENCE has.

Anyone worth their salt will at least acknowledge the possibility of their belief system being off base for another individual.

But I don't think that is the point. In my opinion, as long as the belief system is working for that individual (without doing outright harm to others) then it is right for that person.

It is the act of believing that gives a lot of folks peace.

For myself, I believe that there are many things I will never understand, and coming to grips with the uncomfortable feeling of not having all the answers is a foundation for my athiesm.

I also think the word athiesm conjures up a lot of negative imagery involving evil. But not believing in gods includes not believing in a god of evil.

Although I disagree with almost everything Philege said previously, I do feel that nature drives the acts of man and he begins early to naturally assess right and wrong (and of course that changes over time and with circumstances).

I don't think the need and drive to survive has changed very much which, in my mind, results in some examples of the 'evil' we see.

regards,

mark

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#10304 - 01/04/06 03:50 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
_________________________
~Justine~

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#10305 - 01/04/06 07:24 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
protonman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 32
Loc: Washington State
The conventional, current Christian belief is that "God" created the entire Universe. This is pretty big order, and in my opinion, ridiculous. The Old Testament does not claim that "God" created the Universe, just Earth. That is possible.

Conventional Darwinism is that life originated on Earth and all life forms came into being by natural evolution. We do not know that. This Darwinism is as self centered as was the Roman Catholic Church in 1600 AD.

I held an absolute belief, for 40 years, that UFOs are impossible. I could argue the subject all day long. All of this came to an end in April, 2001, when astronomer Tom Van Flandern presented - in my mind - absolute proof of artificial structures on Mars. (Go to www.metaresearch.org). My belief and argument went into the waste basket.

I have not seen a UFO or had an encounter higher than the zeroth kind, but I must accept that UFOs are possible. Any reader, please tell me when in official human history did we go to Mars?

The possibility exists that we were "created" or designed or engineered by others. From our viewpoint they would appear to be gods. We could be a colony "seeded" for reasons not known to us.

Our history is truncated. Any reader, please show me official history records prior to about 4,000 BC.

Gregg Wilson

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#10306 - 01/04/06 10:46 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Philege Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 184
Loc: United Kingdom
Although I disagree with almost everything Philege said previously, I do feel that nature drives the acts of man and he begins early to naturally assess right and wrong (and of course that changes over time and with circumstances).

Mark5 Please eleaborate why?

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#10307 - 01/04/06 10:48 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Philege Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 184
Loc: United Kingdom
The conventional, current Christian belief is that "God" created the entire Universe. This is pretty big order, and in my opinion, ridiculous. The Old Testament does not claim that "God" created the Universe, just Earth. That is possible

Gregg Wilson

I beg your pardon! The old Testament in Psalms tell us that God created all the stars in the sky and can name them one by one. Read and see for yourself.

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#10308 - 01/04/06 10:58 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Philege Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 184
Loc: United Kingdom
I held an absolute belief, for 40 years, that UFOs are impossible. I could argue the subject all day long. All of this came to an end in April, 2001, when astronomer Tom Van Flandern presented - in my mind - absolute proof of artificial structures on Mars. (Go to www.metaresearch.org). My belief and argument went into the waste basket.

I have not seen a UFO or had an encounter higher than the zeroth kind, but I must accept that UFOs are possible. Any reader, please tell me when in official human history did we go to Mars?

I have had encounters with aliens, and yet I still believe in God. Because even aliens were created by Him. If you read one of my earlier postings where there was a discussion on aliens I gave details about these encounters. In ancient times people mistook these for what we refer today to as angels. All other planets and habitations in the universe are in the spiritual realm of heaven. The earth has been removed from this realm and isolated till the end of time. Mars appears to us to be uninhabited, but on another dimension it is a vibrant planet full of life and much mor advanced than us. They live in accordance with the Laws of God and enjoy perfect harmony in Gods order of things. Read Jesus parable about Lazarus. When the wicked man was burning in Hell he asked Abraham if he could allow him to visit his relatives alive on earth to warn them that hell does exist. Abraham told him that there is a gulf between Heaven and the earth which cannot be breached.

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#10309 - 01/04/06 11:04 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
protonman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 32
Loc: Washington State
Wow! You have met aliens from other planets? My life is soooo.... boring.

Gregg Wilson

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#10310 - 01/04/06 11:05 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Philege Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 184
Loc: United Kingdom
I have not seen a UFO or had an encounter higher than the zeroth kind, but I must accept that UFOs are possible. Any reader, please tell me when in official human history did we go to Mars?

In the 1970s a man who used to work for NASA claimed he had a video tape of astronauts exploring Mars and that they found a primitive life form on Mar which burrowed underground. The mad was ridiculed by NASA. Unfortunately I don;t remeber any further details.

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#10311 - 01/04/06 11:07 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Philege Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 184
Loc: United Kingdom
Wow! You have met aliens from other planets? My life is soooo.... boring.

Gregg Wilson

Certainly I can give you details of these encounters if you want.

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#10312 - 01/05/06 12:24 AM Re: IQ and Intelligence
protonman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 32
Loc: Washington State
Testimony is not evidence. The scientific axiom is proof positive. Wait. I forgot...the is the religious forum...

Gregg Wilson

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#10313 - 01/05/06 03:06 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
mark5 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/20/05
Posts: 11
Loc: tallahassee, fl, us
Philege,

There were two parts to my previous post: I disagree... & right vs wrong early. Which one did you want to discuss?

mark

ps Justine, thank you for your (edited?) comment.

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#10314 - 01/06/06 03:58 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
Mark,

Sorry, that was a weird day for me. I posted something about how becoming comfortable with uncertainty would be the true path to serenity. . . but, when I tried it myself, my ego started to disintegrate...not a serene experience at all.
_________________________
~Justine~

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#10315 - 01/06/06 04:11 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
" The scientific axiom is proof positive. "
No it isn't.

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#10316 - 01/06/06 05:40 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
protonman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 32
Loc: Washington State
TheFallibleFiend:

Okay. Let's have it your way. I say that there is a crater on the backside of the Moon and it is filled up with 75 Cadillac convertibles. That is the Truth. Jesus told me so. Now prove me wrong.

Gregg Wilson

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#10317 - 01/06/06 06:10 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
WARNING! ANYONE WHO HAS NOT SEEN VANILLA SKY SHOULD NOT READ THIS POST BECAUSE IT REVEALS THE ENDING. OR COVER UP THE MARKED AREA.

Protobon,
you're just copying dkv now. I say you are an idiot! Prove ME wrong.

It's impossible - because I may be an idiot myself, therefore any logical proof you give me I may ignore. Then you have all these definitions, ambiguities and misunderstandings to deal with... And finally,

STOP HERE!

there is always the possibility of a vanilla sky type situation in which nothing can be said to be truly real.

CONTINUE HERE:

Maths has limitations too. My maths with mechanics lecturer says that the statistics lecturers still argue over un-resolved methods of calculating certain things (I may have got the wrong end of the stick, if I have, please correct me)

My point: you can't give 100% proof of something being true or false. All you can do is weigh out the evidence for and against it, and BE LOGICAL in your final decision.

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#10318 - 01/06/06 07:15 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
protonman Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 32
Loc: Washington State
This thread has degenerated to gibberish. Goodbye.

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#10319 - 01/06/06 08:49 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
Call it gibberish - If you can't admit it's true.

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#10320 - 01/24/06 05:51 AM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Anonymous
Unregistered


Good one Rob.

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#10321 - 01/24/06 08:40 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
"Okay. Let's have it your way. I say that there is a crater on the backside of the Moon and it is filled up with 75 Cadillac convertibles. That is the Truth. Jesus told me so. Now prove me wrong."

That isn't "my" way. That isn't even remotely derivable from anything I said.

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