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#10162 - 07/11/05 10:33 AM IQ and Intelligence
DoctorSarah Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/11/05
Posts: 2
Hello all,
I recently conducted an experiment in which I researched the effect of cannabis on intelligence. I found out that it greatly diminshed the intelligence of people with an IQ of below 100, but actually increased the IQ by a number of points in those of an IQ above 130.
I am now investigating a link between science and IQ. Therefore, I am asking you: what is your IQ? I imagine it will be quite high as we are of an intelligent breed!
I am actually a member of mensa myself, with an IQ of 162, however it is said Einstein had an IQ of 200. All comments and information will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Sarah.

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#10163 - 07/11/05 10:39 AM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Orlaith Kadoahsinjenkinson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/11/05
Posts: 6
Loc: Wiltshire
my dear doctor sarah, i do agree that the members of this particular science forum are of a high iq and intellingence i mean you just have to read the messgaes posted by rodriguez to relaise that we are indeed of a talented kind. i'm not yet a member of mensa however i do treasure my IQ of 149. thankyou very much my friend xx Orlaith

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#10164 - 07/11/05 10:43 AM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Rodriguez Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 17
Loc: UK
oh yes doctor sarah, u seem a truely, truely smart individual! i wonder how u would look in a spandex simba suit, so i culd watch u enact it together! oh doctor doctor i need help
_________________________
Roddy

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#10165 - 07/11/05 10:47 AM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Orlaith Kadoahsinjenkinson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/11/05
Posts: 6
Loc: Wiltshire
Doctor I have a problem...maybe i could make an appointment with you for coffee some time wink

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#10166 - 07/11/05 10:47 AM Re: IQ and Intelligence
DoctorSarah Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/11/05
Posts: 2
I do believe this is rather off topic. However, i am not averse to spandex at times.

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#10167 - 07/11/05 10:49 AM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Rodriguez Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 17
Loc: UK
aren't we all a little in awe of spandex and its great powers. it can reduce a masculine strong man like me to a nervous wreck! my iq is 150, so im probably not quite at your level oh wondrous doctor, but i too am a mensa man!
_________________________
Roddy

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#10168 - 07/11/05 11:48 AM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Charlie Brown Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/07/05
Posts: 103
Loc: Kilauea, Kauai, Hawaii
http://www.gladwell.com/2005/2005_05_16_a_brain.html

Opening:

Twenty years ago, a political philosopher named James Flynn uncovered a curious fact. Americans--at least, as measured by I.Q. tests--were getting smarter. This fact had been obscured for years, because the people who give I.Q. tests continually recalibrate the scoring system to keep the average at 100. But if you took out the recalibration, Flynn found, I.Q. scores showed a steady upward trajectory, rising by about three points per decade, which means that a person whose I.Q. placed him in the top ten per cent of the American population in 1920 would today fall in the bottom third. Some of that effect, no doubt, is a simple by-product of economic progress: in the surge of prosperity during the middle part of the last century, people in the West became better fed, better educated, and more familiar with things like I.Q. tests. But, even as that wave of change has subsided, test scores have continued to rise--not just in America but all over the developed world. What's more, the increases have not been confined to children who go to enriched day-care centers and private schools. The middle part of the curve--the people who have supposedly been suffering from a deteriorating public-school system and a steady diet of lowest-common-denominator television and mindless pop music--has increased just as much. What on earth is happening? In the wonderfully entertaining "Everything Bad Is Good for You" (Riverhead; $23.95), Steven Johnson proposes that what is making us smarter is precisely what we thought was making us dumber: popular culture...

Aloha, Charlie

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#10169 - 07/11/05 12:56 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Anonymous
Unregistered


IQ is very important in Science ...
EQ is very important in Business...
And if you want to do some real test of someone's intelligence then both parameters must be considered ....

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#10170 - 07/11/05 02:44 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Charlie Brown Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/07/05
Posts: 103
Loc: Kilauea, Kauai, Hawaii
Gardener developed a theory of multi component intellegence. Perhaps its best to avoid having a single number rating as a human being.

Gardener, H., (1983). Frames of the mind: The theory of multiple intellegence. New York:Basic Books.

Gardener?s Seven Styles of Learning:

A. Linguistic Learner
1)Strong memorization skills.
2)Processes information by saying, hearing and seeing words.

B. Logical/Mathematical Learner
1)Strong in math, reasoning, logic, and problem solving.
2)Processes information by categorizing, classifying, and working with abstract patterns.

C. Spatial Learner
1)Strong with imagination, sensitive to changes, mazes, puzzles, reading
2)Processes information by visualizing and using pictorial images.

D. Musical Learner
1)Strengths lie in picking up sounds, remembering melodies, sensitive to pitch and rhythms.
2)Processes information by using rhythms, melodies and music.

E. Body/Kinesthetic Learner
1)Strengths lie in tactile behaviors.
2)Processes information through body movements and tactile behaviors.

F. Interpersonal Learner
1)Strong leadership style, good empathy skills, good conflict resolution skills, and strong communication skills.
2)Processes information by accessing others, sharing ideas and comparing informational feedback from others.

G. Intrapersonal Learner
1)Strengths lie in understanding self, internalization of thoughts autonomously driven.
2)Processes information by individualizing projects, self pacing instruction and private work environment.

Aloha, Charlie

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#10171 - 07/11/05 03:27 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Uncle Al Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 540
Loc: Southern California
High autists' performance at a given task generally benefits from mild exclusion of external stimuli. Adding entropy to a garbage midden does not improve it.

Let's party! Two parts:

Uncle Al took the 1973 GRE early on a Saturday morning while rather stoned from a dorm double birthday party the evening before. He chugged own two cans of Coke and went at it. 750 Verbal, 750 Math. 1500/1600. Then again, consider the competition.

Psychology, Public Policy,and Law 11(2) 235-294 (2005)
"THIRTY YEARS OF RESEARCH ON RACE DIFFERENCES IN COGNITIVE ABILITY"
The 15-18 point difference in average Black (and to a lesser degree Hispanic)-White (and to a greater degree Asian) IQs is hereditary.

Psychology, Public Policy, and Law 11(2) 328-336 (2005)
"WANTED: MORE RACE REALISM, LESS MORALISTIC FALLACY"
There has been no narrowing of the 15-18 point average IQ difference between Blacks and Whites (1.1 standard deviations) over the past 100 years.

Lynn, R and Vanhanen, T IQ and the Wealth of Nations (Westport, CT: Praeger (2002).
A mean IQ of 70 was reported for the general African population.

http://www.isteve.com/IQ_Table.htm

(based on a sample of 6,246,729 from corporate, military, and higher education.)

Not a single scholarly refereed paper is to be had proposing Blacks as a group are *not* intellectually inferior by simple demonstration. All objective evaluations - elementary school performance, standardized testing, preferred university admission, life itself, even speaking English - overwhelmingly demonstrate that Blacks as a group fail at any task that depends on intelligence. Project Head Start is a $7 billion/year example of refractory intransigent innate stupidity.

CUNY, educating naught but the dregs of NY City ethnic scum, pulled 11 Nobel Prizes during the 35 years Project Head Start produced nothing.
_________________________
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz3.pdf

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#10172 - 07/11/05 10:13 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
extrasense Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 427
Loc: USA
Hello, Sarah,

162 is an impressive IQ. I doubt Einstein was even close to that number.

Those with lower IQ might be having outstanding achievements, due to the fact that their abilities profile matches the needs of the problems they are working on. In such case the weaknesses in some areas might be beneficial, channeling the performance in particular direction.

Has anyone researched the abilities profile of living Nobel laureates, and such?

ES

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#10173 - 07/11/05 11:56 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Count Iblis II Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 375
IQ tests only measure how well one is at doing IQ tests. There is a correleation with school performance, but this doesn't imply that someone with a low IQ isn't intelligent.


I know that I have a very low IQ, I don't know exactly how low. But when I was tested in primary school to determine to what sort of secondary school I should go, the psychologists adviced that I was unsuitable for technical/mathematical stuff. This was much to the surprise of my teachers, I was the best of my class.


Since then I've done a few times similar tests, but each time the outcome was very bad compared to how well I was doing at school. The tests didn't measure IQ but were measuring what type of education is most suitable for you. But superficially the tests are very similar to IQ tests I've seen.


The only part of the test I performed well are the number series. I suspect that what's going on is that the test assume that to do well in certain subjects means that you must be able to quickly spot certain patterns quickly. I think that it is actually the other way around. If you can spot the patterns quickly you will probably be very good at certain subjects. However, it can be the case that your brain is wired differently and that you are good at seeing patterns at a more abstract level than is tested.


In that case you may have very bad mathematics ability according to the test, but still be very good at mathematics. Note that there are some tests in which Chimpanzees score better than Humans. If you train Chimps to find a way out of a labyrinth they'll point out the solution much faster than well trained humans can. The Chimp brain is apparently much better configured for this task.


Now suppose that the labyrinth test was used by psychologists to test for mathematical ability. Arguably there is some correlation between mathematical ability and finding your way out of a labyrinth, because you need some logical reasoning for this. Then according to this test Chimps would be mathematical geniusses. laugh

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#10174 - 07/12/05 12:46 AM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Charlie Brown Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/07/05
Posts: 103
Loc: Kilauea, Kauai, Hawaii
What if employment offices for different roles in an enterprise were at different ends of a labyrinth with differnt clues or treatments at the branching points?

Aloha, Charlie

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#10175 - 07/12/05 03:38 AM Re: IQ and Intelligence
YOGI Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 17
Loc: Marietta Georgia
My IQ hasn't been tested since early grade school. I am 66 years old so that is quite a ways back. I do remember being somewhere in the top third on that test.

I never finished second year high school, and that second year was a joke anyway. I got shafted by the Chicago school system and ended up in one of their dumping ground schools instead of Lane Tech where I went for my first year. Seems that an over the summer move by my mother put me one block outside of their area and in the area for Crane Tech. By the time I found out that I couldn't go to Lane it was too late to register for Crane and get my classes.

Anyway, I managed to work in some machine shop and high tech areas and have become proficient enough to be an engineer with a 15 million company with plants and warehouses in five states. And that after running my own industrial engineering and repair business for 25 years.

I have always been a heavy reader of technical material. I read several science and engineering magazines monthly. And I don't mean popular mechanics or discover. In fact I don't even read Scientific American much anymore since they dumbed down to appeal to the common market.

I also do things like solve the Jumble puzzles in the paper as fast as I can write them; they are not really a challenge. I do the new york times crossword puzzle in pen and you can read it when I am done.

So, I do not know what my IQ level is and I am not so sure it matters in the real world. I do know that I have solved engineering problems without a formal education that professional engineers with the sheep skin have failed to solve.
_________________________
People don't care what you have done
People won't remember what you have said
But they will never forget how you made them feel

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#10176 - 07/12/05 04:03 AM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Anonymous
Unregistered


That is amazing....
So many times in the past we have seen such non-linear behaviour.
It is a fact that knowledge comes coded with the genes...

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#10177 - 07/12/05 12:50 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Arrogathor Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 52
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
A few points. On IQ I am a member of a society limited to the top 1% of IQ in the world. Like Al I once took the GRE aptitude test. I did not score as high as he did. I scored in the top 1% of college graduates in English skills and the top 14% in math. Since I had never been to college and indeed had dropped out of high school, this is not a bad score. I consistently score in the top 2 or 3 tenths of 1% of IQ in the world.

IQ does exist. There is a G factor. However, the situation is a bit more complex than that. Focusing on one area or another will make you less immediately effective in areas outside that. It takes time and effort to retrain from one area to another. So the multiple IQ model is both true and false. G can be applied to virtually all areas of human endeavor, however, people tend to specialize and develop one or the other.

Flynn is a rather brilliant man and quite a nice fellow. I E-Sponded with him while writing my section on race and IQ http://www.overalltech.net/huff/YIQRace.htm

He has recently developed a thesis which he calls reciprocal reinforcement which is probably the best model for explaining the difference in IQs between members of different cultural groups such as Whites and Blacks.

Uncle Al said, "Not a single scholarly refereed paper is to be had proposing Blacks as a group are *not* intellectually inferior by simple demonstration."

It is apparemt that he is not familiar with Dr. Flynn's work, or he is making a rather silly statement.

"The Bell Curve" itself does not support what Uncle Al said. While TBC with no evidence does suggest that the IQ difference is genetic, it also states that the difference is insignificant in terms of daily life. The IQ overlap between blacks and whites is so large that in any given situation where you are comparing a black to a white the possibility that the black will be more intelligent than the white is so large that to ignore it is insane.

Actually, the real scientific data available today more and more supports the idea that the measured difference between black and white IQ is environmental and not genetic.

You can read my paper posted above or read Dr. Flynn's book on the subject.

Another cultural factor promoting this difference between black and white IQ is discussed in my paper on husband murder in black society.
http://www.overalltech.net/huff/YHusband.htm

Al, as usual, shows no ability to rub two facts together and come up with an idea. As in all his posts, all he does is react in an emotional knee jerk fashion to the irritating silliness of the extremist left.

The extremist left is quite stupid, silly, and irritating, but that should not lead us to abandon fact based empirical evidence and just scream and shout.

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#10178 - 07/13/05 11:53 AM Re: IQ and Intelligence
extrasense Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 427
Loc: USA
Did we scare off dr. Sarah?

By the way, what is effect on IQ of the fetus stage, vs the genetic makeup? Of the early childhood?

ES

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#10179 - 07/13/05 12:51 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Quote:
Originally posted by extrasense:
Did we scare off dr. Sarah?
I hope not (Mike Kremer)
By the way, what is effect on IQ of the fetus stage, vs the genetic makeup? Of the early childhood?

ES
Intelligence, per se, is extremely difficult to define.
I am sure it has different aspirations, and different meanings in different societys.
Prehaps the ultimate definition of intelligence, is genetically 'locked up' in the genes of every different species, whether insect, animal or human.
That of procreating, producing, and keeping oneself alive,
whatever ones circumstances, inspite of drought
disease, or enemies within, or without, ad infinitum, is a desirable achievement.
Modern western society looks with favour upon the man who builds up a Company. The more Company's he builds, the more persons he employs, the more his intelligence is respected.
I would have difficulty in living upon a barren desert island, were I transported to one. Yet a few of us, just might be able to survive with care dilligence, and intelligence.
The average Negro is not a hard worker in a modern western society. The average Chinese is a very hard worker. The average Negro has aspirations to marry a white female, and often milks the system. The average Chinese, rairly ever milks the system, and never marrys anyone darker skinned than themselves, for they are determined to integrate, to fit in. And yet the average black has an almost idyllic, 'laze-along' (from his point of view) life within our society, respected for his musical talents and often physical prowess. Gold bling, and a large car, announce to his mates, that he has made it. We require the golf club, membership cards, and the mansion, as our announcement.
Does it take a different kind of intelligence, to be one of the above, without becoming a 'drop-out'?
Many clever people 'drop out' in our society upon reaching middle age. For reasons best known to themselves?
Having a high IQ and a respected member of Mensa has little meaning in other parts of the world. Unless the IQ test was tailored to fit that particular society in general.
A child of ten, brought up reading books of Mensa tests and puzzles, will score an enormously high IQ when tested at this young age.
Some people of a different genetic disposition, 'drop out' when placed in our society, and only recover when placed back to live in their 'home' society. Why is that?
Prehaps hundreds of years of adapting to life, in their natural enviroment, and living it in the manner best suited to themselves, has an influence upon innate intelligence?
Prehaps its those people who have learn't to live their lives without attracting attention, who always keep a low profile, who are the real super intelligencia of a future society?
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#10180 - 07/13/05 04:05 PM Re: IQ and Intelligence
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
I never took the GRE for real. I was intending to take it and took one real test to practice for it. I gave myself the correct time allotment (but finished early) and other restrictions (no calculator or book), but I took it in a coffeeshop. I got 780 verbal and 790 math. The math was not surprising, as I got 750 on the SAT math and I've never scored less than the 99+ percentile on any standardized math test (at least not since the fourth grade). The verbal was a little curious. I think I got a 580 on the SAT verbal. As I didn't practice for the GRE (that test WAS the practice), I can only think of two things that I've done:

1) in my youth, I primarily read only science and sf, but since I graduated HS, about 30% of my reading is now classics. MANY of those GRE like words are to be found in classics.
2) I started posting regularly on the net about 1980 and have had an extraordinary practice at writing since that time.

I know that some IQ orgs accept (or at least used to accept) surrogate tests in place of IQ tests. OTOH, many of the people I know in these kinds of organizations irritate me. My opinion has softened over the years. It used to be that every single person I knew who belonged to a hi iq organization was a complete idiot. But I've met a large number since then who were really very smart - so I don't suspect, as I once did, that there is an inverse relation between IQ and intelligence.

I've never had an IQ test that I can recall. I don't have any real interest in taking one. I took the mega for fun, though I did not finish it. I solved all of the verbals, all but one of the pattern matching, most of the algebra stuff. I think that based just on the ones I solved, I could estimate about 160. (I never had the test graded, but these are the kinds of things that you just know when you're right.) I suspect that's high, though I'd guess I would measure somewhere between 130 and 164 and most probably between 140 and 150. Just a guess.

I don't know what IQ means and I'm not convinced that others know what it means. Richard Feynman scored 125 on his IQ test in HS (James Gleick mentions it in his book "Genius," which I do not recommend, btw). The fanatics about IQ postulate that he was so contemptuous of the test that he probably just picked a score and tried to get that score on the test. They postulate this based on no evidence other than the fact that they really believe in the correctness of IQ tests and can't accept the idea that someone truly brilliant would not do well on them. "He's got to be one of US!"

I'd be less skeptical of the idea of IQ ~ Intelligence, if it weren't for the fact that the subject is the realm of psychologists and political fanatics.

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#10181 - 07/14/05 01:21 AM Re: IQ and Intelligence
TheFallibleFiend Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
I just remembered: I did have an IQ test given at my last job at a small engineering (robotics) firm. They never told me the score, but did say that I had scored very much higher than anyone who had ever worked there previously.

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