Originally Posted By: Bill
This to means that he thinks that all of the frequencies are in one wave. That suggests that the frequencies are all in one container, so to speak. What I was telling him is that each photon is a separate entity.

And he is correct Bill G there simply is no reason within the creation process as to why photons rather than waves should be created ... I said that.

It is the same situation on an incandescent bulb there simply is no reason in classical physics that the light emitted is photons rather than waves. You have kinetic energy and that usually isn't quantized.

You keep saying I am making it more complex I am making it DEAD SIMPLE ... HEAT THAT MAKES THE LIGHT. Why that light is quantized into photons you can't get from the process. Most children get that and then also understand why fire makes light etc.

Originally Posted By: Bill G
I don't think that you can create a photon without having a charged particle change energy levels.

There is the physics you are missing and why I took you to task smile

The connection between kinetic energy of molecules and emission comes from the photoelectric effect which Einstein won a nobel prize for nothing to do with energy levels in the particles. The energy level quantization is in the EM NOT THE PARTICLES.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoelectric_effect
Quote:
Photoemission can occur from any material, but it is most easily observable from metals or other conductors because the process produces a charge imbalance, and if this charge imbalance is not neutralized by current flow (enabled by conductivity), the potential barrier to emission increases until the emission current ceases. It is also usual to have the emitting surface in a vacuum, since gases impede the flow of photoelectrons and make them difficult to observe. Additionally, the energy barrier to photoemission is usually increased by thin oxide layers on metal surfaces if the metal has been exposed to oxygen, so most practical experiments and devices based on the photoelectric effect use clean metal surfaces in a vacuum.

You then connect it thru Max Plancks and black body radiation to get the complete story and he derives the formula E=hv and the energy must be quantized. The quantization is not produced by the process it is because all electromagnetic waves must be quantized.

Originally Posted By: Max Planck
Planck postulate, that electromagnetic energy could be emitted only in quantized form, in other words, the energy could only be a multiple of an elementary unit

ALL EM is quantized ... ALL NO EXCEPTIONS.

This allows all EM to have "photons" which is the packet multiples of the minimum level of quantization. Classically you don't think of RF for example as being able to have photons you make it a wave in classical electromagnetics. I suspect that is why you are trying to make the process create the quantization and photons.

Why a photon is emitted is because the kinetic energy (motion) of a charged particle changed/reveresed and it gives up an energy packet quantized to that energy amount. The quantization is in the EM not the process which is actually linear.

The upshot is every material emits the same color at the same temperature telling you the emission has nothing to do with ENERGY LEVELS WITHIN THE MATERIAL. White hot is white hot and is the same temperature regardless of the material.

ANY ANSWER THAT INVOLVES PROPERTIES OF THE MATERIAL IS WRONG.

Last edited by Orac; 07/05/16 07:08 AM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.