Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion Physics Forum Energy conservation in curved spacetime.

Let me be blunt, give me the reference frame you can see the photon BLUE and NORMAL. Where exactly in space are you going to stand to see that ... think hard.

Lets take you back to the discussion with Paul and the 3D wave that collapses at one point. You get to observe a photon in exactly ONE location in space and time and once observed it collapses everywhere else. So your discussion first involves at least two different photons (they might be the same at source .. hint that could be a good reference frame) and you aren't even observing them from the same point. Viewed from the source it becomes obvious the background is what is changing !

Do you get it you may see a photon either BLUE or NORMAL but NEVER BOTH. You are constructing some GOD reference frame in your head that simply doesn't exist for multiple reasons. This is the the same rubbish people do with time stopping on the event horizon of a black hole and think its real.

What I should have done in the GUN/BULLET case is mixed statements from the bullet reference frame and statements from the gun reference because that is most certainly what you are doing.

So pick any reference frame you like, but stop using two reference frames and trying to claim them as one. You aren't GOD and you can't be in both reference frames at the same time and nor can the photon. The photon isn't NORMAL and then GOES BLUE as it goes along, it never changes what is changing is the background AKA YOU. A bird flying and landing on a power line change does not change it's voltage either, even though from you view point you may try and claim that.

Different OBSERVERS see things differently but that has nothing to do with the photon which remains oblivious and cares nothing for you observers who only have limited relevance to it until they become casually linked. The bird when landing on a power line may touch another power line and it will suddenly find the placid line it was landing on, suddenly kills it. What the bird did was make contact with two different backgrounds, which independently were safe.

So the BLUE and NORMAL is only meaningful to YOU, the photon is always NORMAL and unchanging .. where YOU ARE STANDING TO OBSERVE IS WHAT IS CHANGING.

This naive idea that layman seem to get that standing here in some location that you can claim time really stops at an event horizon or that a photon "really" changes to blue does my head in. The universe doesn't revolve around humans and they aren't god and given a special reference frame, your reference frame background matters ALWAYS.