Originally Posted By: Bill S.

If the universe is all there is, how would you know it was rotating? Everything in the universe remains static relative to everything else.


Thats the point of the bucket argument

YOU WOULDN'T AND IT DOESN'T MATTER ALL OBSERVERS AGREE ON OBSERVED MOTION.

Edward March correctly worked it out in the argument with Newton.

You would have to be the person standing outside the bucket or universe to have a totally different view of motion.

You can take this down to a simple example:

You go to a cannon and fire it in a normal 45 degree tragectory shot on a flat field. I selected this because it was the first physics applet I found.

http://www.splung.com/content/sid/2/page/projectiles

Simple stuff we can develop nice formula and its easy to understand the physics makes perfect sense doesn't it.

There is a problem this only makes sense to someone ON EARTH.

Consider now what you see from a stationary point in space

What I would see is the ball leave earths surface describe this weird spiral as the earth both rotated around its axis and moved around the sun and the sun moved around the galaxy etc etc.

You get the problem my space view of the motion is COMPLETELY different to the earth view of the motion and the earth formulas won't work for me in space.

Back in the 16th century it was probably heresy to suggest you could leave earth and it was rotating etc so they used a bucket for the argument.

So now if the universe is rotating as per the bucket argument

=> If we are outside the universe we will have observations which are very different to those inside the universe.

Ergo: Our physics won't hold outside the universe you would need to do some convoluted mathematics.

=> From inside the universe all observations would be consistant with all observers but you would have an underlying centrifugal force. In other words nothing in our physics would change except the appearance of a weird constant force.

Now the force would have to be in 3D so imagine a ball rolling because if it was on a directional axis like the earth spins you would easily notice it because the universe would bulge in the same way the earth does at the equator.

Yes they have looked and no it doesn't seem to exist so the only possibility left is a rolling spinning ball.

Last publication on that idea I can find was last year and well its underwhelming
http://arxiv.org/abs/1105.0815

I assume you understand what he is doing trying to make a rotating centrifugal force = dark energy

Edit: BTW just found Alexey has a website if you are interested in the idea Bill S (http://www.janaganamana.net/getArticles.aspx?jgmsearch=Alexey+V.+Klimenko)

Last edited by Orac; 08/23/12 06:16 PM.

I believe in "Evil, Bad, Ungodly fantasy science and maths", so I am undoubtedly wrong to you.