its pretty easy to see that if a single atom can be slowed
then the universe can also be slowed.
so the mass of the universe is not constant , because if
the mass of the universe slows then its kinetic energy has decreased.
This is a very old argument called the bucket argument goes back to 16th century.
Ready here we go its a classic 3D argument.
If the universe is moving laterally into what and around in what is it moving ... your universe is therefore not complete and there is a universe that is larger than your universe. This is called a translation in 3D terms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_(geometry))
If I can translate the universe by definition it can't be infinite because there is somethng bigger into which it is moving.
The universe can however be spining or as we say in 3D it has a rotation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotation_(geometry))
If you look at the top right picture if you rotate about any other point other than the centre you universe has to rotate into something bigger than the universe so your universe is therefore not infinite.
So there is only one movement of an infinite universe possible and that is to rotate about a perfect centre point.
Here is the bucket argument and it essentially answers your problem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_argumentThe answer you come out with is if the universe is spinning the energy from an outside frame of reference may indeed be different but from within the reference frame it is fixed and agreed by all observers.
Ergo: If you have an outside reference frame the universe is therefore not infinite and from within a finite spinning universe all motions and therefore kinetic energy is agreed on by all observers.
so your ranting serves no real purpose except to stuff yourself.
I am not sure why you get so upset and heated about what is nothing more than a simple discussion. I am not trying to upset you or anything these are very historic and long settled science concepts and arguments.
Unless you can isolate a reference frame outside the universe than from a reference within the universe it has to be constant. As discussed if you can find a reference outside the universe then the universe by definition is not infinite.
the system must be isolated / closed in order for mass to remain constant!
The universe by your definition has to be closed otherwise there is something outside the universe and it can not be infinite. Anything that is infinite has to be closed because there is nothing outside it.
but here is something very interesting for you to think about.
suppose you were at the periphery of the universe.
and in your hand there was a flashlight.
you shine the flashlight outside the universe.
does the light go beyond the periphery?
you throw the flashlight , what happens?
Again this is a very old and historic argument and the answer is very simple you can't do it space is a 3D manifold it has no edges :-)
In a 2D sense try finding the edge of earth in the dark ages you could sail off the edge of earth you know :-)
do you break down and cry if there really is no barrier
or do you just learn to live with it.
Again I ask why all the emotion these are very basic science and logic discussions there is nothing really at stake here.
I am a very logical person if you have a sound logical argument you can convince me I have no ideological or religious reason to believe what I do it is simply based on the facts and logic.
You still havent answered the question why is an infinite universe so important to you? I have explained E=MC2 is why the argument is important to science.
All arguments involving an infinite universe always break down under logic surely you have got that by now.
If we go back to your statement which is at the heart of your argument.
its pretty easy to see that if a single atom can be slowed
then the universe can also be slowed.
To slow the atom we exchanged energy outside the atom but inside the universe to slow our movement in the universe. To slow a car we exchange energy outside a car but within the universe to slow our movement in the universe.
Logic tells you to slow a universe you must exchange energy outside the universe and within what???? to slow our movement within what ??????
Can a universe that is within the what???? be infinite and that is the very bottom of logic of this argument.
I have been consistant with you all along if you can exchange energy outside the universe you can have what you want and as I said above just say that don't try and find examples because you are going to struggle because as scientists we have been unable to find any examples of what you want no matter how hard we look. Our law is based on observation and logic not because we like the idea or anything and it leaves us with a nasty problem how the hell did the universe get here. Bill Gill and I would love the idea the law of conservation of energy is wrong but unfortunately for now we have to accept it.
