Okay Paul it's not important how we got there you have realized the important bit so long as you accept energy mass equivalence (E=MC2) you are stuffed the mass of the universe is constant.
From science point of view we accept it so for us we don't care if there is no matter and no kinetic energy in the universe (so everything is all energy) or the universe is a solid compact not moving brick (so no visible energy) or anthing in between he mass of the universe because E=MC2 is EXACTLY the same.
Now you are saying that you don't accept E=MC2 or energy/mass equivalence then knock yourself out have an infinite universe.
In future if you get involved in discussion don't get involved about kinetic energy and mass and examples just simply say I don't accept E=MC2 and therefore .......(explain away)
I never understood your want to make the universe infinite and any intimation that science says that is a lie it explicitly says the opposite and that was my argument with Socratus.
Travelling around the universe and whether we can observe the entire universe is another issue entirely and in those cases the universe can most definitely become infinite for science.
However observation is always pragmatic do you know what is happening specfically on the other side of the world right this second, a meteor could have just impacted and removed a huge chunk right now.
Personally I think the enery/mass equivalence or conservation of energy which are really the same thing is real and exists for a very good reason it stops a universe spawning more and more mass or creating more and more energy and going into a chaotic runaway.
From a science perspective I often wonder are there certain defined sizes of universes like size of suns with particular physics that match the size. I know in your religious background such thought is probably forbidden but it is fun to theorise.
I still find it interesting that being religious you want an infinite universe rather than god "imprisoning" humans in a fixed spacetime. I use imprision because I am sorry with my english I don't know a better word.
Can I ask what is the appeal of infinite over a god enforced box?
Last edited by Orac; 08/23/12 02:35 AM.
