Ellis, After reading the comment by Bill S about the asking of questions I took a look at your most recent and stimulating-post to me. Unless I missed it, it, interestingly, did not contain one question. I wonder why.

You simply stated that
Originally Posted By: Ellis
... all atheists absolutely do not believe in god in any of his/her/its manifestations.
Ellis, I am sure that you realize that the word 'manifestation' is a very complex one. So keep in mind that most modern theists--and certainly all panentheistic unitheists--do not think of god as a being who goes around manifesting himself or herself in a three-dimensional form.

Based on what you and other atheists say I have come to accept that it is probably impossible for atheists--especially if they really do believe that the material world is the only heaven possible--to have a meaningful dialogue with theists about matters theological and spiritual. Perhaps all we can do is, with kindness and respect, accept each other for who we are.

EVOLUTION TAKES TIME
Visionary theists, especially panentheistic unitheists on the other hand, are those who can sing with the Martin Luther Kings of the world: "Deep in our hearts we do believe we shall overcome some day..." He and those who saw the vision and acted on it made it happen. And we all know that desegregation came at a great cost--his life and the lives of others.

As one optimistic visionary once said: The difficult things we do as soon as possible; the impossible things, the kind we ought to do, may take longer." It also may take lives. That's the price!

Some believers, visionaries with whom I agree, put it this way: We know, not just believe, that the world of matter can be dynamically transformed by knowledge (wisdom) put to work by loving minds and spirits from what the world is into what it ought to be.

Isn't this is what the new physicists are all about? Getting the knowledge that will help us demonstrate this on a regular basis? They, the philosophers, the artists and the prophets before them, challenge us to have the vision to see what is and make it what it ought to be.

I agree that there is no god who has a role in science. G.O.D. does not play roles. G.O.D. IMO is the transforming love, is the message, the knowledge the art, and the process.

Last edited by Revlgking; 10/17/11 06:07 AM. Reason: Always a good idea!

G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org