Originally Posted By: Ellis
Left to its own devices my cynicism will give yours a run for its money. I cannot suggest prayer or religion as I don't think there's ever been anyone listening. By now he, she or it should have done something about it! I can't suggest lobbying politicians because we all know how that ends up, and unless we ordinary people can see something in it for ourselves we are not going to want to change anything. So that's a bit depressing!!

However now and again public distaste and pressure can do good. Examples of disinterested good are very hard to find but arguably could include-- the result in South Africa, Ghandi's predominantly peaceful demonstrations regarding independence, and more recently in my country an apology was made to the aboriginal people for the behaviour of the colonising Europeans who took over their country (whilst this may seem paltry it is a first step to better times) . Do not forget that the use of poison gas is forbidden, that use of nuclear weapons has happened only twice in 60 years and slavery is illegal in all countries. OK there's lots wrong, after all I am writing this with dreadful news coming from the Middle East, but some things are improving. Most of us desire the same thing,-- a home, a family, friends enough money to support orselves and some happiness along the way. It's basic and it's what most of us want.

Since we are such simple creatures it should be possible to sometimes make decisions which are in the public good. This would be one of them... ie no manufacturing of beings to be slaves or live bodies for experimentation. However I do share your fear (but maybe not your conviction) that such research will prove irresistible for some. This raises the question--- should there be a limit to the suitability of some subjects for such research? We condemn Dr Mengele, but his research in some areas was still used to advance knowledge, and save lives. Now there's a dilemma!

Meanwhile I guess we have to try a bit harder! And have the courage to go for change when it is needed. As humans that is hard to do. We all like the familiar and comfortable and need a shake up from time to time.


1. Asst, coach to coach, timidly, at basketball game:

“Gee coach, we’re behind 42 to 115, our top 4 players are benched for fouls and there’s only 3 minutes left in the game. I think we may lose this one.”

Coach, purple-faced and shouting:

“Shut up with your *^&*^%$% cynicism! You’re going to demoralize the players with all that negative blabber!”

Cynicism, you say ? Why do some people who obviously don’t like reality call it cynicism?

2. An apology by people who weren’t even born when the travesty began, to people who have been dead for decades. Seems paltry? Nah… I don’t think so. It’s so far beyond paltry it gives new meaning to the word absurdity. There are things like this going on here in the US too. And every few days Bush and other heads of state issue a “strong condemnation” on some rogue action by some rogue state or other. How many of them can remember who they condemned and for what an hour later?

3. “Since we are such simple creatures it should be possible to sometimes make decisions which are in the public good.”
Once again, we get to “we should”. I’ve already agreed with a dozen of your we shoulds. I agree with this one too. But I’d much rather see some “we cans” I can’t think of any. I’m looking for someone who can. My whole original post was a statement to that effect. “it should be possible”? Okay, I agree. Now, HOW? What good is a should without a how? Or even an idea of a how? I keep asking how… and you keep answering we should.

Are we going anywhere with this, Ellis. Or am I just cynical for asking?

Last edited by Iztaci; 01/06/09 04:18 AM.

When you talk to me like I'm five, I want to write on you with a crayon. -- Joanna Hoffman