Originally Posted By: Ellis
TT wrote:
That is correct.....

....in regard to the basic goal of religion and philosophy equalling unity.

Whilst you may agree with Anonymous (aka Tinker) his/her statement is a statement of belief or perhaps of faith. It is not a statement which can be proven to be correct. You (TT) agree with it, and that is fine, in your mind it is correct, it concurs with your personal outlook . To others (eg. me) it is not "correct". It is a strongly held belief, or maybe an attractive tenet of faith, but it is not indisputably right, or correct.

Anything can be disputed, but then that doesn't mean truth isn't truth. It just means that someone doesn't agree with something.
Generally speaking our experiences when sense driven do not always match the environment and reality.
The scenario of a crime scene might be one that could represent an example. A man assaults someone and witnesses tell different stories according to the way they perceive the same incident.
Who tells the right story, the witnesses or the person having the experience of the assault?
Often in the stress that occurs when in a heightened state of anxiety clarity of mind can be compromised.
Even when someone gets attached to a situation and becomes emotionally charged it takes someone who is less invested in the event to see clearly. This is the reason so many people who fight with each other seek mediators who have a more objective stance.

In the expansion of consciousness the mind is seated in still objectivity, or the experience of the now.

Because we are all interconnected we can feel another when there is nothing in the way. This is easily observed in relationships where we become familiar with our family members. A loved one comes home feeling sad and without saying anything we have an acute awareness of their feelings.
This is because we are connected to each other. Science has discovered that the cells in our body communicate through the chemical and mechanical connectivity of neuropeptides and receiver sites built within the cellular structure. Our cells talk to each other. We are walking cellular universes that have the ability to communicate. When one cell becomes sick they all know about it.

At the human level we have a different conscious ability to be self aware. We can consume ourselves with beliefs and ideas based on the emotional stresses and attachments to what the ego identifies as real or not real.
For the waking state human who is more subjective in their conscious awareness all reality comes from what has been learned and accepted. This learning and subjectivity often cuts one off from another in the ignoring of thoughts and feelings that are pushed out and away from the environment of the nest from birth to adulthood. We learn to accept and not accept.
What we think is real is taught to us and very few are allowed to develop their own experience or ideas of life through self discovery because we have been influenced by our parents, and their parents, and theirs before them and so on.
Peer groups created through democratic process of psychological bonding in like experiences give us a false sense of security and even authority of these things we accept from the assumed authority of reality that is our parents our peers, our public education system which is at least 10 years behind the times and nowadays the very loud majority influence of the politically swayed media.

Very few have developed the intuitive open mind they were born with which is like the innocence of a child. Instead the average adult has narrowed possibility to the realm of belief and social idealization.
Our science is based on theory, and the application of tools and theory to verify what we believe is real within the known beliefs of our world and the ideals of our current state of evolution, but one thing always remains the same within the sensory world and science still engages itself in pursuit of any and all knowledge of it. The force behind creation and destruction that is within the universe.

It has always been available for experience, and through traditional methods of the mastery of it and surrender to it, passed from generation to generation through the written and spoken word to those who could preserve its knowledge and live within its natural state of human being, so that it can continue to remain available for those who are ready to discover it themselves.

It remains regardless of belief, it is experienced no matter what kind of beliefs one has, and it has been experienced by people of all social, political, and religious practice, and by every race on this planet in all ages of time and in all ages of physical human growth.

My agreement is not with the other persons belief, it is with my own experience of the absolute and Unity with the absolute in all things as both the source and goal of life.

Because it is not your belief or experience has little to do with it being real or not.

I didn't acknowledge whether it was Tinkers belief or experience, but you can still place yourself in this conversation as an authority to this and it won't really validate whether it is just a belief or actual experience. You can only attempt to validate in yourself whether you have an experience or belief that can be compared to the subject at hand by speaking of your own experiences.

For someone who knows less than you, you may be a lighthouse for that person and influence their thinking to create agreement.
For those that live by agreement and democratic truth, any invasion or threat to personal ideals can be disturbing. Such is not a very expanded or free way of living in this limited state of consciousness.
This type of conscious awareness stands by an ideal until something better comes along, and without the direct experience of something greater it is difficult to be open to anything else.

There is a trick people have used in the jungle to catch monkeys. They put a banana in a jar, and when the monkey puts their hand in the jar to try and get it out they wrap their fist around the fruit which is then too big to pull through the opening. Wanting the fruit so badly the monkey will not let go and as the hunter approaches the monkey the jar which is attached to a tree anchors the monkey in one place and the monkey loses its life because it will not let go of the fruit.

This is the state of mind of most humans in the waking state, where their ego wraps itself around belief and ideals that it will not let go of. It will hold onto the idea and identity of physical mortality until it dies, never opening the mind to the greater experience of the absolute Self within because it is too self absorbed in what it thinks is real on the outside, projected from belief.
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!