Redwener,

I try to go where the evidence leads me. It seems clear that humanists are capable of doing as much good and as much evil.

I would add though, that an overwhelming amount of the slaughter that went on in the 20th Century was at the hands of people driven by humanist ideologies - in the number of 200 million or so. I can provide facts and figures.

Some have called the 20th century 'The Great Secular Experiment' as religion has ceased to be the leading framework for most Nation States. In terms of an experiment it has not been an overwhelming success.

Science (often seen as the replacement to religion), has done an enourmous amount of good but it has not solved some of the basic problems we face. We may lead longer lives, but looking at suicide, depression and mental health stats, we are living longer but unhappier lives. The hordes of mental health experts and psuedo-science quacks making an amazing amount of money are testament to this.

I will also say that almost every Christians I personally know is driven to do some kind of service for those around them. For instance, they are a major contributor to voluntary work in the UK. I have so many church aquaintances that are abroad in crappy circumstances, serving communities in places like Bangladesh.

This is a matter of my personal opinion, but my non religious friends and work colleagues are not so often driven to the same extent. Most people I know 'work, go at weekends to get drunk and fill in the time in between watching TV and shopping for the next latest consumer item'. Sorry to use a broad paint brush - it is just what I see.

Obviously for those on this site who lead more meaningful, examined, intellectually satisfied lives...well you probably move in different circles where people are more interested in improving our lot - so it won't be your experience. But the circles I move in are more interested in Fashion, Big Brother Reality TV, doting on Self Help Feel Good about Yourselves Books and Celebrity Worship than making the planet a better place.

As Plato said, "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Many people I know lead an unexamined life.

Sorry, I know it sounds terrible to say it, but this is what I see.

I may have contradicted my first statement, but I do see the enormous amount of good and self sacrifice that is made by some non-religious people.

Blacknad.