Tim, you ask if it is rational to say that there is no purpose to the Universe. Of course it is, if you have no reason to believe otherwise. There is no empirical evidence that there is any purpose at all the Universe.

Is it rational to say that there IS a purpose to the Universe? Of course it is, if you have no reason to believe otherwise. There's no empirical evidence that there isn't one.

When you see a building, you only know that it was designed and built by somebody because you have been taught all your life that this is how buildings come into being. But what if you were a child raised by wolves and never saw civilization before? One day you come out of the forest for the first time and see a hut. You would probably think it was a big rock or a strangely shaped plant. That it is hollow and has somebody living in it isn't so surprising since lots of things live inside caves or hollow trees. Why would it even cross your mind that somebody made such a thing? It would be entirely rational to think it grew right where it was. And the same goes for all buildings. Until you have a reason to believe otherwise, there is no reason to assume a creator - of buildings or of Universes.

This is, in a nutshell, the difference between an atheist and a theist. An atheist sees the world and can't think of any reason there would have to be a God. A theist looks at it and can't think of any reason the wouldn't be a god. And each looks at the other with perplexity, unable to come to terms with such an alien though process.

Personally, I have reason to believe in God. I have had experiences that made it very clear that God exists and that faith can do amazing things. Some of these experiences could be easily explained away by an atheist as errant activations of the "god module" in my brain, but others cannot.

And a person who has never had such experiences will grow to believe whatever it is that they are most comfortable believing. I could tell such a person about all my experiences, and because they would doubt my motives in the telling, or my recollection of the events, or my interpretations of the outcomes, they would have no reason to change their beliefs. This is why I don't go around evangelizing. When a person wants to find God, they will find it wherever they look. When they don't want to, they won't look and won't see God even standing before them.

I have no problem with understanding atheists. The people I don't understand are the fundies. They can look at a black cat, and if there's something in the Bible about there not being any black cats, then they'll say it isn't black. Of course it's black! It's right in front you! "No, it isn't black. It's a test of my faith and I'm faithful so I know it isn't really black." They can't see that the point of the writings is to teach, not to rob us of learning. If the Bible said there are no black cats then it would clearly be a case of parable or hyperbole. But fundies prefer to allow themselves to be robbed of their intellectual capabilities.

The problem is this: A non-fundy Christian reads an article about evolution and thinks, "Hmmm. That's interesting. What else is in the paper today?" It has nothing to do with them, so they learn from it (or not) and move on. A fundy looks at the same article and sees it as a personal attack on their beliefs and so they take to the street en masse and make stickers to put on textbooks, and of course they call themselves Christians. Since the vast majority of Christians couldn't care less, and are remaining quiet, the public begins to assume that all Christians are unthinking idiots who can't see the evidence placed before them.

When I told my brother I was going to join the Catholic church, his first question was, "Will you be allowed to dance if you want to?" I was floored! He's an intelligent guy, but somehow the whacky rules that Christian cults have come up with have all been rolled up into one ball for him with the label "Christianity". If he thought that way, then so can anybody. And that's what ticks me off.

Christianity is in crisis, not because of rational atheists like Dan, et. al., but because of unthinking, non-discerning, led-by-the-nose, idiotic fundamentalists. Like George W. Bush, for instance. And I don't see it changing any time soon because the vast majority of Christians look on these morons and scoff, but do nothing about it because it's hard to get worked up about evolution, cosmology, quantum physics, or whatever unless you see them as an attack on you. And they simply aren't attacks. They are truth.

So rather than asking Dan if it's rational to think the universe has no purpose, ask a fundy if it's rational to think that God is a deceptive trickster with nothing better to do with his time than make a universe filled with logic if there is no need for that logic.

w

Last edited by Wayne Zeller; 03/21/07 12:18 AM.