Males, in some circumstances can produce milk for their young and supplement that of the Mother's. Male lactation is well documented.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation

Why should male nipples present a problem to the theist?

It probably presents a problem to 'Six Day Creationists', but then so does everything else.

As for Ellis statement:

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"Why is it more irrational to believe that as a result of marvellous chaotic events this planet, indeed this universe, has become what it was, what it is and what it will be? What is rational about believing that some one or some thing did it all?"

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It interests me that you include the word 'marvellous'. Try as materialists might, they cannot get away from invoking such words when they talk about the universe. It interests me that when talking about random, meaningless actions we can barely restrain ourselves from using words associated with meaning.

"marvellous: being or having the character of a miracle "

Because of the degree of fine tuning involved in the universe, we can easily ask the question, "has some form of intelligence ordered it in such an improbable way?"

Because as the Theoretical Physicist, Professor Paul Davis says, "it is as if the universe knew we were coming," then why should it be irrational to ask the question, "is there something that has set this all up?"

So the idea that there is some previously existing entity that has created and precisely ordered all of this to achieve the eventual rise of sentient creatures does not seem out of the bounds of possibility.

The alternative is that this universe appeared from nothing and fortuitously came about with just the right balance of fundamental forces etc. involving odds of 10-120 that when combined with the odds of other properties occurring, rockets up to astronomic proportions of improbability. We then have further chance occurrences that result in life appearing, and all the while the laws of the universe work in just such a way that we obtain mind from base chemicals and suddenly the universe has produced something that is able to examine the nature of itself and even re-order the universe for its own ends, and seemingly break free of determinism and exert itself on its surroundings by free-will.

The material universe produces minds of almost unfathomable complexity by accident.

Believe that if you want, but then don't call the religious irrational.

Surely the only intellectually honest position is agnostic - following in the footsteps of the great Atheist Professor Anthony Flew who, after decades of aggressive atheism, renounced it all and said that advances in the understanding of cosmology and genetics made it clear that there was AN OVERWHELMING ARGUMENT TO DESIGN.

It is clearly not irrational to believe in a creator. I would concede that this in no way leads us to the Christian God. But I feel it takes an equally giant step of faith to jump to Atheism.


Blacknad.


Last edited by Blacknad; 03/17/07 03:37 PM.