Sorry to say it Samwik but you didn't win ... your wife did.

What you wrote was:
"She went for yes, so we had a good argument. I finally won by looking up the definition of sound"

The definition of sound is that molecules in the air were compressed: They would be. And they would be heard by every other molecule with which they interacted. The fact that a human ear wasn't there is irrelevant. They could have been heard by a microphone, by a bear, by an ant, and by a leaf fluttering down from a tree and landing 1 angstrom further to the left than it otherwise would have.

Now go apologize to your wife. <g>

You are correct when you write: "Tagore isn't saying your paper clip is just a dream based on our brains, but that its true manifestation is unknowable (therefore 'non-existent' -to us)."

But at its core Tagore is saying that we are important, that we are relevant, that we matter. And Einstein is saying that if we had never come into existence the universe wouldn't know, wouldn't care, and would do precisely what it is doing. That is what I am saying to.

I see Tagore as essentially being the same as most self-annointed religious theologians. Claiming some completely self-centered important for Homo homo sapiens because it is Homo homo sapiens making the claim of self-importance.

Einstein is more religious in that he truly understands the nature of the universe. We are not just unimportant ... we are irrelevant. And the sooner we, as a species, realize that and start acting in a manner that would make us something other than a sad accident of evolution ... the better.


DA Morgan