Z, to say that "all the stuff in the universe has simply always existed" is EXACTLY the foundation for folklore stories throughout history (also refer the issues surrounding the arguments for/against Genesis on this forum) because the facts (as we NOW know) were beyond comprehension then. So they created shortcus (fables) to deal with it. But that's what makes science great - seeking to uncover, rationalise, grasp & understand - and then apply & manipulate (though not always to the good of all mankind). I cannot even begin to agree with the 'always there' notion - it's too easy a way out to (probably) THE most perplexing of mysteries. But of course they said man could/would never fly either. Yea right - they believed it then. Today even the moon landing is a "forgotten" accomplishment. They once also said that a self-starter motor for an automobile was a technical impossibility - they didn't fully understand electricity then. We may not fully grasp all of creation now - and probably won't in our lifetimes - but the day will come (geez, I sound like a doomsday prophet) when all the Lego blocks will fit into place and - if you & I could be there to witness it - we'd say: "oh, so THAT's what happened, so THIS is how it all works, so THESE are the answers!" There must be a quantifiable explanation to creation and our existence - I can't agree that it simply 'was always there'. (Anyway, that's just my opinion.) And then when we find the answers we'll be asking the next question - where the preceding "stage" came from... but that's another story altogether, and science will cross that bridge when it gets there. W.r.t. your 'ebb and flow' thoughts maybe you'd like to search 'The Big Crush' on the net.