Archie wrote:
"That was David Koresh; unless you're speaking of another."

You are correct. I started off with one example and then edited it, imperfectly, with another.

Archie wrote:
"The problem with your view is the leader wasn't 'lost'; at least not for more than a long weekend. It would be consistent for Judas to suicide if he thought all was lost;"

You assume the suicide was from despair. Not the actions of a true believer. If you know your best friend and saviour is in heaven waiting for you. And if you know you have fulfilled your mission in life. Suicide is the most logical thing to do. A suicide conducted with class, with self-confidence, and with certainty that all is well with the universe.

One of my main reasons for thinking so-called "true believers" are frauds is that they are almost universally afraid of death: A hypocrisy.

Archie wrote:
"Jesus' death was what was required, not Judas' treachery."

Gods do not die of old age. It has never happened and never will. An act of treachery or skuldugery or evil is absolutely required.

Jesus' death, and the means thereof, had to have been known before his birth if the story holds water.


DA Morgan