[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blacknad:
Soilguy,
You said - "That's all fine and good. Religions usually offer a good way for people to get along with each other. Do people also have to believe in magic though? That is where relgions get society in trouble."
REP: Religion without God at its centre is useless. Religion without God is just a moral framework and has no more value than any other relative moral framework.
It comes down to authority - the Bible tells me not to lie - I accept its authority.
Soilguy, can you explain to me (obviously without reference to authority), why it is wrong to lie?
It is wrong to lie because the people around you learn that you are not trustworthy, and your word is devalued (rightfully) in comparison to that of others.
In fact, can you explain to me why the Nazi holocaust was wrong?
If we treat others with disrespect, and murder is the ultimate disrespect, we can expect to be treated no better. Humanity thrives on cooperation, and suffers otherwise. It's our nature.
I believe it was wrong, but for very different reasons to you.
Are you saying you think it would be OK, if it were not for the threat of Eternal Punishment?
What is to stop me from replying to everything you say about why it was wrong with the statement, "Ah, but that's what you say."?
Nothing. After all, it IS what I say, and nothing more. You are getting the point of view of someone who behaves morally, yet doesn't believe in a father-type God, and expects no afterlife. All I'm saying is that religion isn't required in order for a person to behave in a decent manner.
If there is no magic in religion, ie. 'no God or supernatural', then there is no authority, and therefore no morality.
I will agree that there are some people who would do whatever they think they could get away with if they did not fear punishment in an afterlife. Plausible benefits for believing in the supernatural do not constitute, for me, a reason to believe in the supernatural.
Once again, I do not believe so that I can have morality - but it is a by-product of belief.
OK. I can agree that there is more than one pathway to moral behavior.
