DA Morgan ?
Let me remind you that this is the same god that had children torn apart by bears for insulting an old man. Yet does nothing to stop genocide, torture, and rape? An explanation is required.

REP: This is the story of the prophet Elisha calling down a curse upon some ?children?, forty-two of whom who were subsequently mauled by two she-bears. (The bears, Ursus Syriacus inhabited Palestine at the time). It is comfortably assumed that the passage is making the point that God sent the bears out, and that this was not just some bizarre coincidence.
In this instance it seems that God may not have torn children apart. The words used to describe the ?children?, (sometimes translated ?youths?), is translated from the Hebrew term ?neurim qetannim? which can best be understood in relation to how it is used elsewhere in the bible.

1. It was used to describe Isaac when he was in his twenties.
2. It was used to describe Joseph in Genesis 37:2 when he was seventeen.
3. It was used to describe soldiers in 1 Kings 20:14-15, who were up to the age of thirty.

The passage in 2 Kings 2:23-25 says forty-two males were mauled by two bears - it does not say whether there were any more present, but it is possible as it is likely that many ran away and escaped a mauling as the bears ravaged their way through the crowd.

So we have a crowd of over forty-two males, up to 30 years old, taunting a lone traveller who after performing a mercy mission in nearby Jericho was making his way through an area possibly very hostile to him as it was a centre of Baal worship. A religion that practiced child sacrifice, amongst other barbaric acts and was probably not entirely enamoured of the followers of Jehovah.

Now in my reading of the situation, Elisha was facing an angry mob and was possibly in serious danger.

There is also no way of knowing if the forty-two were actually killed, because the Hebrew word translated as mauled may easily indicate less serious injuries.


So ?the same god that had children torn apart by bears for insulting an old man? is not an apt way to pr?cis this passage, and just as it is essential in scientific research to gather all of the facts, so it is here also.

DA Morgan ?
?does nothing to stop genocide, torture, and rape?

REP: I refer you to the post - 05-10-2005 18:27October 05, where I stated:

Do you want a creator to end all suffering? Then that creator must also stop humankind from doing almost everything, and keep people in a moral straight-jacket that would be suffocating, because most of what we do causes someone or other pain. Ever been selfish, unfaithful, told an untruth, became angry, insulted anyone and made them feel small, or even lived in a society that consumes more than it needs whilst children die in some parts of the world for want of cheap oral rehydration therapy?

- God did not create mindless robots that unquestioningly obey his every command. The human race may go on to create robots with A.I. (complete with the three laws), but I am not sure that, like our children, they will ever love us or actually have a choice about whether they want to know us or not. I believe that we are free to rape and pillage and stick two fingers up to creation as well as each other because God did want to give us that choice. But also remember that we are free to love each other and to enjoy beauty, art, the world, relationships, debate, sex, exploration and of course science.

I think that if humanity voted whether it wanted to exist or not, despite everything - the ayes would have it. So whilst some are so unhappy with existence that they would want to kick a creator in the teeth, most people, including me, are grateful to be alive.

Regards,

Blacknad.