jjw, Thanks for the shower update. What an ingenious, novel solution (at least I've never heard of that one)! Guess I'll have to start a list of solutions. No way to tell whether that was from thermal or vortex effects, that I can see though.

And as for overcoming the concept of limits or boundaries, I say check out the string theories; our infinite space can be "contained" within higher dimensions.

I'd been anxiously waiting to see how you'd answer the space vs. universe thing; but I still don't get how you see them as different.

I know! I should have asked if you see space as existing before the big bang (or outside of the big bang at the beginning; into which the bigbang then expanded)?

Thanks for the shower report, and cheers too,
~Samwik

Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.